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PahrumpGeorge

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Posts: 50
 #16 
Not to one to spoil a lively debate, but I would like to change the subject. Maybe a little discussion of the current condition of, or progress of repairs to the North Pass. It has been a while since any information has been posted. Is there still a chance that the major washouts will be repaired prior to the holidays? Some of us with a relatively long rear overhang have a problem and don't want to get to Willow Creek only to be turned back.

Now to get off subject. I have noticed a little confusion about the name of "Bat Rock Road". I realized that many newer visitors to the springs have never seen the Bat Rock. All of the times I passed it, I never took even one photo; does anyone have a photo they could post; Major Tom or Silver Bob probably. I miss that rock with all of its adornments, which changed from time to time.
bobhuckaby

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Posts: 132
 #17 
To misquote, "if it is there, they will come."  the existence of the springs is in the book, and comes up on any online research of hot springs, which are things we cannot change.  I show people some of the pictures of the road from silverbob's recent reports, and despite expressing my personal preference for visiting as much as possible, they are deterred from even considering it.  The benefit of road reports is to minimize the detritus that accrues along the way from those who are ill-prepared, and to motivate those of us who are coming in regardless to go get that extra full-size spare and pack the tow rope, pick and shovel that we will need to help the others, as helping is in the spirit of the springs.
Bob from Tahoe
florida

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Posts: 291
 #18 
I think that anyone who has found the forum has found the springs. I see nothing wrong with sharing helpful information. Those road reports probably deter as many folks as they encourage.
Salt Peter

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Posts: 540
 #19 
The park service posts the closures but only the cautious even bother reading them or checking with a ranger about actual road conditions. Several times I have met people trying to get places using their trusty GPS or printed maps which show roads. These people usually are in a vehicle ill suited to back country travel. Just recently I had to share information with two groups of travelers on the Trona/Wildrose Road at the berm. One group was Indians from Bakersfield trying to get to Stovepipe/Furnace Creek. The other group were Euros. Neither group had checked the park website road conditions.

So most in the know will check here to see what the situation is from folks who have gone recently. I don't want to see more people in our sacred special spot either but as said before, the cat is out of the bag. I know if I were coming from the bay area or further and found out only when I got there that I wouldn't be getting to my destination because I had no recent report...well I'd be a bit pissed. True there is a lot to see and do all around DV and recently when my friend and I couldn't make it via south pass we took a road we hadn't been on and had a great time in a different area. Rant off.
Dusty Trails

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Posts: 16
 #20 
Silver Bob's post resonates with me.  I am very aware that the springs are not a secret, and that they rest within the boundaries of a National Park, but it still doesn't answer my question.  Please, open my understanding as to how the road reports benefit the preservation of Saline.  From the perspective that I currently hold, the road reports are nothing more than a guide for human use.  Need everyone be reminded of what happens to wild places as the number of human visitors increases? 

The latest park service morning report states that north and south passes are closed.  While their postings may not discourage everyone, it is still an effective means of managing use. 

The flood gates have been opened.  Actions of the past can not be undone.  However, moving forward, this forum has the choice to continue putting up signs that direct the flow, or it can step back and let the flow find its own way. 









SalineJim

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Posts: 32
 #21 
Dusty I have relied on these reports for over 10 years.  You want to live in an idealistic world that's fine.  To me I just don't see the point of your post except to stir things up.  SilverBob was right on the money and his post was well said.
bikerjosh

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Posts: 39
 #22 
@dustytrails , ok my troll comment may have been a bit hasty. As  someone that lives 9 hours away from the park in the winter, when I'm planning a trip I utilize the reports that members on this forum contribute. A few live very close to the park and are there quite often.  My last trip involved leading 7 other vehicles into the park covering some rugged terrain and indeed a trip/stop through the springs before heading out over steel pass. Knowing the current trail conditions allows me to reroute due to washouts etc. Yes, there are many websites I utilize as well as this one but I have reached to members here and even met a couple at the Springs always with the a common love of the park.
thanks Josh
Sam D.

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Posts: 692
 #23 
Well said, Silver Bob. I just want to add that if people stop posting road reports, the discussion will simply move to other 10-12 websites.
SilverBob

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Posts: 379
 #24 
Well, you'll get no flaming from me.  I understand where you're coming from and respect your opinion.  I happen to disagree with you, but that's why we have this forum; to discuss things.

As one who has posted several detailed reports, I've now been accused of having two very different motives.  A couple months ago I was accused by another member of overstating the damage to the road in an effort to keep people out.  And now, you're suggesting that I'm somehow encouraging more folks to visit the springs by posting an honest report.  I can assure you that neither of you is right.  I just report what I see with my own eyes and let others make up their own minds whether to visit or not.  There are few concepts in which I believe more strongly than the free exchange of information.

If my posting pictures of the washouts and boulders in the road cause some folks with less than capable vehicles to stay out and avoid a tow truck bill, most would view that as a good thing.  If they saw the pictures and decided to try it anyway, at least I'd hope that they'd be better prepared for the consequences.  Once the roads are restored to "normal" conditions, there's not really any need for road reports, so I don't expect to see very many.

Finally, I would remind you that the Saline Valley Hot Springs are part of a National Park!  As Major Tom often says, "That genie has been out of the bottle for a long time!"  There's really nothing any of us can do to keep the secret any more.  That may be unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

You're right, some others will probably start flaming and calling names.  That's a shame, because I believe you really do want what's best for the valley and the springs.  Feel free to stop by my camp next time we're both out there.  Maybe you can convince me that I'm wrong, maybe I can convince you that I'm right.  Either way, you'll leave with a cold beer and a handshake!

Cheers!
Dusty Trails

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Posts: 16
 #25 
Nope, haven't been lurking around this forum long enough to be a troll.  My statement came from wanting to understand how the road reports portion of this forum is helping Saline Valley. 

I know and respect several of the long time members of the association.  All the work that has been put into the newsletters, organizing annual events, site upgrades, etc... deserves respect and appreciation.  I express that without hesitation. 

There has been recent discussion about consolidation of threads.  Figured it would be a good time to address the necessity of the roads report section, with the intention of highlighting the potential impact it may have on the future of Saline.



bikerjosh

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Posts: 39
 #26 
ummmm, yeah about that. Do you spell your name T-R-O-L-L? Not sure if you would use one or 2 L's.
Dusty Trails

Registered:
Posts: 16
 #27 
Hello everyone.  I would like to start this topic off by stating that I am long time saline visitor who is new to the forum.  I love the springs and surrounding valley, and want nothing more than for it to remain as a wild, peaceful, and remote experience that is maintained and shared by those who feel the lure of exploration.  Many of you will flame me for what I am about to say, but I am sharing a sentiment that is held by the many who disagree with wilderness exploitation on the internet.

Keep the road reports to yourselves!  Those who report, while intentions may be good, are loving this place to death.

Flame away... 
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