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Just Bill

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 #16 
Thunder 58. I’m only going on what was dictated decades ago when Cranston and Young Feinstein enacted The Desert Protection Act. I’m not an electronic user\ wizard and go by the stars ,sun and use to take for granted people’s word! So I’m not one to dictate the EXACT boundaries , I’m only going by what I’ve believed for decades.....maybe Silver Bob or other SPA notables....Major Tom etc could shed some reliable facts on this subject! Even Lee ! Haven’t been able to believe electronic, verbal, or much else anymore for awhile now.visitors center in Lone Pine from the govt personal may be an option! Sorry I can’t clarify this one. Happy Rock Hounding!
Frank

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 #17 
Half the time I cam’t even get the people who are camped with ME to control their dogs. The NPS boundary is adjacent to the main road for a time, but not all the way through from north to south. I have had conversations with Inyo County public works about curtailing thier Saline road budget, but at this time it looks like that will not happen.
trigger

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 #18 
Campground host and a couple of signs with some rules as I’ve said before is a good start. Everybody hates signs but in this case it’s reasonable.
PahrumpGeorge

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 #19 
Peer pressure, absolutely, but we are out numbered by far and new ones keep on coming.
I think the issues are more varied and complex than most of us are aware.

On our last trip to Saline, most people, one on one, were pleasant, seemed intelligent and not overly impaired; I did not see any individuals which were unacceptably rowdy. Many of the first-timers were considerate and interested in determining spring protocol; they had come on their own and had no mentor. Conversely, there were people who had been to the springs a few times over the years, which were personally pleasant but exhibited absolutely no interest in controlling their obnoxious dogs, other than just screaming at them, the dogs simply ignored. One such couple had three unruly dogs, one which bit Kathy, were asked many times by several people to control them; they finally did after several days. We are witnessing a lot people which seem to be unable, or uninterested, in respecting other peoples privacy or desires; simple common decency.

Off-road driving seems to have become a need to demonstrate ones capabilities; I don't understand this concept. The traffic on Steele Pass has increased proportionally at least as much, if not more, than the increase at the springs. Apparently, driving thru the canyon and over the stair steps has become a rite-of-passage for many. Therefore, just letting the county road degenerate (stop Maintenance) could have both positive and negative effects. Most serious and dedicated springers will adjust their equipment and still get in; it would eliminate casual weekenders and those without adequate vehicles or driving skills. However, a seriously deteriorated road could become a major attraction for those seeking off-road experiences; the demand for "rock crawlers" could open-up a whole new business opportunity for Silver Bob and those with similar talents. The springs would then become a base of operations for the off-roaders.

A study done several years ago (your tax dollars at work) determined that nice at certain population density, mice cease to be social and become cannibalistic. Is it possible that we are approaching such densities in our magatroplis areas. I am violating one of my own long standing rules when I was in business, "don't just identify a problem without at least offering some kind of reasonable solution". I don't like any of the solutions which I have identified so far; it is going to require more than one simple change in what we are and have been doing. I fear that we are rapidly moving toward some form of NPS bureaucratic regulation; the very thing we all would like to avoid.





Thunder58

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 #20 
Just Bill

When we are driving we have our phone open to our GPS map. As we are driving the green area that marks the National Park boundary extends to the west of the road, sometimes by a large distance. We are rockhounds and use this as a guide to make sure we are not collecting inside the park. If the road is the boundary does that mean that Google maps has it wrong? Please let me know as this will greatly enlarge our collection area.

Thank you
SilverBob

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 #21 
Peer Pressure!

What a concept!  Sounds good to me.
slash2

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 #22 
"You have a nice looking dog, can I get a picture of you and your dog together?"

"Thanks, do you mind if I get a picture of you two by your car? Cool.  Would you mind standing by the back of the car?"

"That's good. Nice. Could you move a little to the right, you're blocking the license plate number."

Seriously though, confronting people about their, or their pets behaviour can be tricky. I've never been good at it. The one time I tried to get a guy to turn down his music at the Volcano Pool was fruitless, he wanted to arm wrestle for it. It was simpler to just move to another pool. (I'm old, he was big)

Who knows, maybe if we had a category on the forum where we could post pictures of bad behavior. Maybe we could harness the power of social media to our advantage for a change, inform/shame people into showing more reasonable behavior?
Salt Peter

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 #23 
The road maintenance has increased in frequency because the County of Inyo had extra funds for road work and decided SVR would be graded more frequently. This was mentioned at the Ridgecrest meeting for the management plan.

I recently compared some photographs from my past trips. Within the past five years there has been an increase in visitors during the trips I went. There are many variables but one of the biggest in my opinion is the lack of a seasonal host at Palm Spring. Lee isn't doing his job and needs to go or step aside.

There were many dogs and some of which do have responsible owners. Others not so much. I did notice visible signs of dogs in various places around Palm Spring.

Last year Chief was the bastard dog who stole peoples food. This season we have the other canines, not coyotes, who come begging.
Just Bill

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 #24 
The fact is the North / South road is an Inyo County road maintained by Inyo County....not a National Park road......Bat road is in the National Park to clarify. N/S road is the county/National Park boundary line!
Thunder58

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Posts: 65
 #25 
The roads are maintained because they are part of Death Valley National Park. Bat Rd is not because it is not an authorised (?) road. 

As for letting Bat Road go I am all for it. Our vehicle is good enough to make it. 

There were rules posted in the bathrooms. Not sure about the kiosks. 


I have no idea how to stop the flow. We found it a few years back on a Google search. Because of the furlow the gen pop know that no one is watching the hen house so they trample many of the National Parks. Maybe when this ends the traffic will slow down again
slash2

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 #26 
It would definitely slow things down and keep some chuckle heads away if Steel Pass and Lippencott were the only way in or out! [smile]

Why does Inyo Co maintain the road anyway? It's got to be expensive, and they aren't a wealthy county, is there a commercial reason for them to keep it up? Mines, private property?
SilverBob

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 #27 
The only thing that will slow this crap down is to let the road go without maintenance for a few years.  Let a few of these knuckleheads break down and have to pay Miller's to haul their sorry asses out.  Then we make sure the word gets out on all those Facebook pages how expensive it is to go to Saline Valley.  It won't stop the nonsense, I bet but it will slow it down!
Glidergeek

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 #28 
Maybe time to build a wall
Just Bill

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 #29 
Hey Pahrump good post! Sorry for an unpleasant stay at you’re / our most favorite place! Kathy getting Nipped is truly unacceptable!
Look Folks: This is our place.....A National Park......Theodore Roosevelt.
We have self managed this gem for many decades. So maybe it is time to step up our “enforcement” to first timers ( newbies) and others of the recommended decorum of this campground! Look Lee is the ruler of the lower area....we need to look after our treasured area!
DECORUM means: the behavior in keeping with good taste and proprietary. PROPRIETY means : the state or quality of conforming to conventional accepted standards of behavior or morals.
These are fairly simple definitions to understand! Control your animals, your music may not be my music, respect other folks, don’t drive as to kick up dust , be pleasant and peaceful to your neighbor......just to mention a few!
SO why can’t informed pioneers and long timers take a positive and peaceful step UP and kindly inform folks of the long held DECORUM. I’m talking pleasant conversation not confrontation...Easier said than done ....I know. BUT it is up to US to work our commitment to this treasured and sacred area that we have come to enjoy so much. Maybe a new post at the Kiosk of expectations and rules/guidelines/ground rules!
It’s understood when drugs and alcohol get involved in conversation of decorum it sometimes doesn’t go well.
Let’s have some positive discussion on this thread and help each other to understand how we can be good/better stewards of OUR PALM SPRING! Peace! Just Bill
PahrumpGeorge

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Posts: 64
 #30 
Damn that guy Google. Was at Palm Spring Dec. 28 thru Jan. 6, only saw 1 person which we knew, a few others think we may have seen each other at one time or another over the years. A fairly large crowed over New Year, but a lot of people coming and going the entire time. There were several large groups (10 or more vehicles), obviously organized, but don't know if any were tours; they seemed to be a mix of attendees, first-timers and some who had been here before, but not regulars.
 
The majority of people we met during our stay were first-timers and had found the springs on Google (had two different vehicles stop us on way in to ask directions to springs), or they came with someone that had been there before; some of these were with the groups. Not that first-timers are necessarily bad, we all were at one time, but there seems to be a serious lack of respect, decency and common sense. Have never seen so may clothed people in the tubs; changing the water seemed to be a waste of time and water, within a couple hours the water would become so cloudy that we would not soak. Loud music, even played right at the tub, in one case the person playing it was a first-timer, but was with someone which had been to springs a few times over several years. I was showering and while drying-off a guy walked past me and started his shower, must have been an important guy who could not afford to wait another 2 minutes. Two people asked about garbage can locations and if the government shut-down affected trash removal; however, most did haul out their own trash.

DOGS!! Have never seen so many dogs at springs, not even close, many people had 2 and 3 dogs. Running loose, not a leash in sight, did not see anyone with a scoop or pick-up bag; dog crap everywhere, had to be careful where you walked. Incessant barking, some dogs were aggressive and at least 2 people were bitten; Kathy being one of them. One dog was thought to be so old and feeble that it was pushed around the Palm Spring area in a baby carriage, this dog had enough energy to come to our camp and get in garbage.

There were numerous vehicles driving thru and around Palm Springs area at excessive speeds, mostly passing thru, going toward or coming down from Steele Pass: a lot of dust, not to mention any safety aspects.

Wish I had a realistic solution to suggest; if this rate of change is to become the new norm, then, unfortunately, some form of control will soon become necessary. 

Happy soaks, don't step in dog crap.
Geo.
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