Saline Preservation Association

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peneumbra

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 #1 
Keep thinking.
Salt Peter

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 #2 
Thought you found different springs to inhabit.
peneumbra

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 #3 
DEATH TO THE CAPITALIST PIGS WHO SUPRESS THE PEOPLE!!!

(Has no relevance to the topic at hand but I just felt like saying it.)
slash2

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 #4 
You are right Sparky, yesterday is the last time the place is ever going to be like yesterday, and you can never bring it back. The only thing that stays constant is change itself. The place is going to change, that's inevitable and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it. So maybe the only thing a person can do is try to have some influence on how it changes and hope for the best.
Sparky of SoCal

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 #5 

The old timers’ good old days are over and will never comeback. You can try to bring it back, but that ship has sailed, and you cats are fighting a losing battle. It’s not right, it’s a failure with our society. The best way to slow down the destruction on the area is to turn it over to the complete Death Valley control like the rest of the park. I know you think I’m wrong and my idea sucks. You are trying to keep a dream alive, but you can’t. Enjoy it now while you can. Cherish it, share your stories, teach your ways to keep things clean to those that listen. Fight your fight, but at some point, yourselves are going to see the true writing on the wall. The Park Service may not save nude bathing or Palm Trees, but they do have a better chance on preserving the natural beauty of the area.

slash2

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 #6 
Like you Pahrump, I am not registered on any of the major social media sites, just this one and a handful of truck and gun forums, (oops, maybe said too much), but I do monitor the facebook one on a regular basis and I can see how if that was your main source of information on the springs you could get the impression it was a place you could go and do whatever you wanted, far from the prying eyes of civilization. I would contribute to that forum but I especially don't trust them with my personal info. 

Seems to me that if people are learning about the springs on social media then that is also a good place for them to learn about how to respect the springs as well, not just by trial and error as they come out and make blunders that may or may not be pointed out to them.

And yes, it does seem only right that a major part of being a host should be to try and keep the Yahoos,  the Uninformed, the Burning Man Wannabes and the inevitable drunken Ass Hats in line.
PahrumpGeorge

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 #7 
slash2, excellent suggestion. I do not use any form of social media; this forum is as close as I get, therefore, I have no idea how to accomplish this; maybe you could help. It would be beneficial if those which do utilize such media, did post as you have suggested; anything is worth a try at this point.

It has been a rare occasion when the springs has had any form of a camp "HOST". Refer to recent posts on the "Lost and Found" thread on this forum. Simply bestowing the title "Host" upon a person does not therefore make them one. While Georg and Ria were HOSTS at the Palm Springs, unacceptable behavior was reasonably well controlled, not only that, they were tireless in maintaining the springs area; the place has never been so well cared for. They were in every aspect a "HOST" and caretaker. However, I believe the magnitude of issues which need to be controlled has significantly increased since they left; these were discussed above. The only thing which they could not effectively control, were the burros which had been domesticated by a certain NPS representative; however, their dog Madi did make a noble effort.

The road issues are another matter. Possibly combining social media posts and S. Bob's suggestion would be a point-of-beginning.

Without some form of effective remedial actions, the springs as we have known them, will cease to exist and loose their attractiveness.

Happy soaks and don't step in the dog crap.
Geo.

 
slash2

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 #8 

If social media is a big part of the problem then social media needs to be part of the solution.

I'm guessing that very little of the bad behavior is intentional bad behavior, sure there are some jerks that show up, probably always have been and probably always will be, but I'd hazard a guess that most of the folks would be better behaved if they knew beforehand what was expected of them.

Sure signs, notices in the bathroom, stuff like that might help, but spending the last mile driving into the springs reading signs with rules and regulations doesn't appeal to me.

People take photos and share what a cool place this on social media all the time, newbie’s see the photos and hear the stories and want to come check it out not knowing anything about the social structure that keeps this place so unique. Why not include some photos of the not so great stuff too, a pile of dog poop, a trashed out camp site, sad faces staring at a boom box, (do they still call them boom boxes?). Include a little commentary on how great the trip was, except for this or that that some folks may have thought was okay in other places but is not cool here.

Take pictures of the negative impact that a large group is having and post it to their sites. Nothing like shining a little light on someone to help keep them on the right track. If what happens in SV stays in SV then you are protecting the good and the bad.

These are social media times, If people learned about the springs on social media then they need to learn about how to respect them on social media. If your solution doesn't include that as part of the fix then I don't think you are going to have much luck.

 

SilverBob

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 #9 
George,  I'm not saying that all road maintenance should be stopped.  I'm only suggesting that they shouldn't keep it in the condition that encourages people to drive like idiots.  I think a happy medium could be achieved that allows access to anyone who really wants to get in, while making life really tough on the increasing number of people who just want to blast in and out on a whim for a quick overnighter.  What's wrong with it taking 3-4 hours from the pavement to the springs? 

As Turtle Jim used to say, "If you let the journey be your destination, wherever you are is exactly where you wanted to be!"

As for the county, I was told that they are responding to a request from the NPS to keep the road easily passable for the outhouse pumping trucks.  There may be some truth to this, since I don't think those guys come equipped to camp overnight, so they have to be able to get in and out with their load in one day.  If this is the case, maybe one of the trailers in "Leeville" should be made available for their use as needed.
SilverBob

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 #10 
Thunder 58, your GPS is correct.  The Park does extend across Saline Valley Road at the north and south ends of the valley.  Here's a link to the map from the Park Service brochure.

http://npmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/death-valley-national-park-map.jpg

The map is too big to re-post on this forum, but it will show you everything you need to know.

Salt Peter

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 #11 
Looking at the NatGeo map it shows the park border beginning just north of Lead Canyon along SVR on the North side, to the South the park border starts just South of Hunter Canyon on SVR.
Just Bill

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 #12 
Thunder 58. I’m only going on what was dictated decades ago when Cranston and Young Feinstein enacted The Desert Protection Act. I’m not an electronic user\ wizard and go by the stars ,sun and use to take for granted people’s word! So I’m not one to dictate the EXACT boundaries , I’m only going by what I’ve believed for decades.....maybe Silver Bob or other SPA notables....Major Tom etc could shed some reliable facts on this subject! Even Lee ! Haven’t been able to believe electronic, verbal, or much else anymore for awhile now.visitors center in Lone Pine from the govt personal may be an option! Sorry I can’t clarify this one. Happy Rock Hounding!
Frank

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 #13 
Half the time I cam’t even get the people who are camped with ME to control their dogs. The NPS boundary is adjacent to the main road for a time, but not all the way through from north to south. I have had conversations with Inyo County public works about curtailing thier Saline road budget, but at this time it looks like that will not happen.
trigger

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 #14 
Campground host and a couple of signs with some rules as I’ve said before is a good start. Everybody hates signs but in this case it’s reasonable.
PahrumpGeorge

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 #15 
Peer pressure, absolutely, but we are out numbered by far and new ones keep on coming.
I think the issues are more varied and complex than most of us are aware.

On our last trip to Saline, most people, one on one, were pleasant, seemed intelligent and not overly impaired; I did not see any individuals which were unacceptably rowdy. Many of the first-timers were considerate and interested in determining spring protocol; they had come on their own and had no mentor. Conversely, there were people who had been to the springs a few times over the years, which were personally pleasant but exhibited absolutely no interest in controlling their obnoxious dogs, other than just screaming at them, the dogs simply ignored. One such couple had three unruly dogs, one which bit Kathy, were asked many times by several people to control them; they finally did after several days. We are witnessing a lot people which seem to be unable, or uninterested, in respecting other peoples privacy or desires; simple common decency.

Off-road driving seems to have become a need to demonstrate ones capabilities; I don't understand this concept. The traffic on Steele Pass has increased proportionally at least as much, if not more, than the increase at the springs. Apparently, driving thru the canyon and over the stair steps has become a rite-of-passage for many. Therefore, just letting the county road degenerate (stop Maintenance) could have both positive and negative effects. Most serious and dedicated springers will adjust their equipment and still get in; it would eliminate casual weekenders and those without adequate vehicles or driving skills. However, a seriously deteriorated road could become a major attraction for those seeking off-road experiences; the demand for "rock crawlers" could open-up a whole new business opportunity for Silver Bob and those with similar talents. The springs would then become a base of operations for the off-roaders.

A study done several years ago (your tax dollars at work) determined that nice at certain population density, mice cease to be social and become cannibalistic. Is it possible that we are approaching such densities in our magatroplis areas. I am violating one of my own long standing rules when I was in business, "don't just identify a problem without at least offering some kind of reasonable solution". I don't like any of the solutions which I have identified so far; it is going to require more than one simple change in what we are and have been doing. I fear that we are rapidly moving toward some form of NPS bureaucratic regulation; the very thing we all would like to avoid.





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