Saline Preservation Association

The voice of Saline Valley

 
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BigDave

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Posts: 19
 #1 
I was with Ed B and I agree wonderful time. The people I met on this trip were first rate from the art restorer(amazing energy) to the work associate(who I did not know went to the springs) her friend(very unique and fun to talk to). This was my 8th trip and was one of the best. One important note please make your input into the general plan before its to late....  
Ed_B

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Posts: 49
 #2 
I and a small group of folks (5) camped by Volcano from 05-25 through 05-28, 2012. The temps were a high of 85 and lows in the 60's.  The windstorm on Friday was the item of most severe note, however it likely helped keep the temperatures low.   We had a couple of very light mistings Friday and Saturday that only really made the vehicles "spotted" and left a thin cover of snow in the higher surrounding mountains;  the snow was gone by Saturday evening. We were told by a camper who had arrived on 05-22-2012 that on that day the high was around 115 Fahrenheit.  The prototype copper pipe shower head was great!  Good work !  The population on that weekend appeared to consist of a maximum of 30 campers spread between the two developed springs and Dave, holding down the fort for Lizard Lee.  We did have a single airplane visit, a Cherokee Six which arrived on Saturday and left on Sunday with three aboard;  two adults and a child.  We had a pot-luck on Saturday and the gregarious Russian from Topanga supplied free flowing beer for the folks;  a good time was had by all.  Of course we also had a couple of Ranger visits, Sunday and Monday.  All in all a very good and friendly weekend with no "bad neighbors" at the camping spots.
XPBC

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Posts: 197
 #3 

Well said Ken,

As a fellow Jeeper I wish I were there when this was going on to educate these  buttheads.  I have done it before and certainly will do it again.  Peggy and I will be out Monday 4-7 to try out the prototype shower head I just created.  Anyone else gonna be there next week?

ps  Driving the Dodge this time.

TeleFunKen

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 #4 
The fact is, the group of "Jeepers" who came though and killed the snake were more like a band of marauders than campers. They basically came through upper spring showing no respect for their fellow campers, basically setting up their camp of 8 or so SUVs right next to a poor couple (who ended up breaking camp and leaving about an hour later), blasting music late into the night (mind you, they were camped at the first set of sites south of Wizard, next to everyone, not a distance away like the Burning Man folks are considerate enough to do)... they FLUSHED out the snake they killed, which was trying to hide... they essentially forced everyone out of Wizard tub by showing up with headlights blazing and chips on their shoulder. The state of their camp after they left was equally as alarming, for they left considerable trash in their fire pits, and otherwise left their camp in very poor condition, and one vehicle was even driven over a mound of soft ground that was rocked off to help the vegetation... They were here for only 1 night, but did more damage in that one night than a hundred of us "regulars" could have done all season. It took a handful of us left over campers to clean up the disaster they left behind.

The fact is, many people view the desert as a waste land, one in which you can't really do any damage to. They don't see how wonderful and fragile the ecosystem is in places like Saline. They don't understand how hard it is for even the smallest of desert creatures to survive, be it the snakes or the mice that get eaten by them. They don't see the rattlesnakes as being part of a larger system, and they don't understand how killing a part of that system affects the other parts of the system, like the rodent population, for instance. They don't realize the creosote bushes are older than they are, and how long it takes anything to grow out there. But most importantly, most of these people lack the basic ability to perceive their impact on others, or more to the point, empathy. Empathy for their fellow campers who came out for some quiet and solitude, empathy for their fellow living creatures.

Given the current state of affairs surrounding the management of the springs, I feel it is groups like this who are the biggest threat to the future of Saline Valley. Unless we can convince the Park Service, (and other management organizations that have control over the future of Saline Valley) that we can protect the area in a sustainable way, I suspect we won't have the springs much longer... at least not in a manner that we can all enjoy like we do now.

Farmer Dean

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Posts: 18
 #5 

Tronaborn; let me start out by saying I've never killed anything out at the Springs. Would I kill a rattler out there - probably not. Would I care if someone else did - absolutely not. I'm proud to be an inhabitant of this planet and don't mind, in certain circumstances, altering or dominating the landscape. Example: I don't kill mice outside, but if they come in my house it's game over for them. I'm lucky enough to have acreage (hence the "Farmer" moniker), I don't kill snakes out in the field, however we keep the farmstead snake free - it's still kind of my house, if you will. Saline Valley is a big place. I have no problem with someone altering the fauna (killing a rattler, shooing a burro or coyote, etc. - that's shooing, not shooting!) around the few acres that the Springs sit on.

tronaborn

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Posts: 92
 #6 
James, I think you misunderstood me.  I never said anything about humans somehow not being part of the world, nor was I talking about killing animals for food.

The way I look at it is that we are visitors there, not owners.  It's like if you are a visitor or houseguest at a friend's place, you land lightly and help out if you can.  You don't put your muddy shoes up on the living room coffee table and you don't help yourself to the fridge without being invited.  You try to reduce the load you impose on your hosts.  

When I go to Saline I try to reduce my load on the place as well.  I don't burn cans and bottles in the fire pits, though I do clean up after others that do it.  And as I said, I move rattlers out of harm's way for either one of us, rather than doing them in because they scare me.  I also don't take dogs out there when snakes are likely to be present, so that there's no reason to kill them.  I like the fact that they are out there and try to live in peace with them and I also feel like others should do the same, but that's why I asked the question - to see how others feel about it.
mcfanny

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Posts: 19
 #7 
I agree with you completely, Tronaborn.  We were there for nine days and saw at least four around the tubs, near the toilet, and even one that was apparently hanging out under our car while we packed.  My nine year old had no problem with them either.  There's a reason they have a rattler, and they use it for our sake as well as theirs.
James Sel
 #8 
Other than the legal aspect of "being in the park". It is OK to kill a snake if you are wanting to eat it. Just like a fish.  According to the fish and game my fishing license lets me take them "outside the Park".
 I guess I'm irritated over the suggested that people are a some how not as much part of the world........ Keep it real!!
BTW the origin of saying grace before as meal came from hunting. Before eating their kill the hunter would recognize that he had just taken a life and would thank the spirit of the critter..... Recognizing that taking life to have life was not to be taken for granite.
   
Possum

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Posts: 12
 #9 
It is illegal in DVNP, right? A new thread, I guess...
tronaborn

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Posts: 92
 #10 
Anyone else think it's just fine to kill snakes in Saline Valley?  I've been known to move them from under my cooler when there in May, but we're the visitors in their world, not the other way around.  I have a problem with this.  
TeleFunKen

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 #11 
We just came back today.  Last weekend was around 105, but come mid week it was hitting only the upper 80's lower 90's.  We were at palm springs with only one or two other people for a few nights.  When we left today there were about 5-8 other people with more rolling in.  The snakes are definitely hanging out as well, one likes to be near the toilet and there was one near the shower, but a huge group of jeepers came in and killed it...  Not to say there won't be another there again, though.  The toilet, however, is in desperate need of a pump, so be prepared there. 
Possum

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Posts: 12
 #12 
Or possibly spend a few MORE days. Weather and temps seem far more variable in May than, say, July. You may catch a cooler spell---who knows. I hope so. Be sure to report back after your trip. Some of the ice chests these days, I understand, are awesome. You can't make ice out there apparently, but you can surely use it up.
hotsoak

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Posts: 36
 #13 
I really appreciate all the responses to may post. I was hoping for a few more people to visit with. I'm still going to come but may spend a few less days. Thanks again for all the information. Hotsoak
Possum

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Posts: 12
 #14 
Now I'M tempted to make a May run... Please give us a report of your trip on this forum---temps, number of people, etc.so others can use that information in the future. You can always find good shade  and cooler temps under the palms if you camp at Palm Spring, especially near the hot pool by the little grass that exists. Anther idea: Bring a large umbrella and plant it in the volcano pool. Roll  it down with any wind.
Possum

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Posts: 12
 #15 
I agree--it's great to be there by yourself. Someone on this site reported it was already 105 by April 20 (about). Renting a sat phone is a good idea. Well prepared, healthy folks can take it, but vehicles might not. Perhaps that's why I see new vehicles being tested in DV sometimes. Animals seem to be grabbing all food not well protected these days.
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