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Major Tom

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 #31 
I think it is unfair to suggest the Board members are "spending money on themselves" by covering travel costs from as far away as Reno to go to Furnace Creek and meet with the Park Service on behalf of the Saline community. There is a lot of time invested in the common cause, on many levels, and I do not think covering gas and traveling expenses constitutes any sort of personal indulgence. Goes to show no good deed goes unpunished. Guess one cannot please everyone.
paul belanger

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 #32 
Un forgiven, I don't know if you've ever tried to administrate anything....but the time it would take to do all the paperwork you are suggesting would negate any possible benefits....preferable for me to just trust the people who are volunteering their time....
Un Forgiven

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 #33 
The beauty of the system I proposed is that it gives 100% flexibility picking the cause(s) you feel strongly about. If you are OK with the board members spending money on themselves then you have a choice.

I am going to withhold my donations and encourage others to do the same until we're given a choice.
paul belanger

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 #34 
Another vote of confidence here.  I donate money to SPA.  So I guess per criteria given, I can have a say.  I believe the annual accounting that has always been given is sufficient.  To reimburse some expense money to a person volunteering their time for our cause seems perfectly legit.   Especially a motel room, as long drives in Death Valley are nothing for the sleep deprived.
Ed_B

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 #35 
I agree with James Sel.

Ed
James Sel

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 #36 
I think they are capable of managing the funds with out all this. We should be grateful for their time and representing us; as they are gretful for the contributions. 
Un Forgiven

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 #37 

“If approved by the board, travel expenses to meetings with DVNP in places like Furnace Creek or equal, may be reimbursed for mileage and, if needed, an overnight stay at a motel, by the following (email) method.”am I the only one feeling the hands in the cookie jar? The board members approved travel and lodging expenses for themselves. What’s next – meals and entertainment reimbursement while traveling? How about holding meetings in Hawaii? How about vehicle leases to be used for weekly springs inspections?

I thought when I donated money to the Saline Valley Preservation Association I donated money for replacing aging pipes, valves and other maintenance. I do not mind spending the funds to pump the toilets or hire an attorney to challenge and block all environmental concerns raised by so called environmental specialist Mike Cipra as somebody pointed out here on this forum. But I've never envisioned having donations spent for travel and lodging of SPA board members. I say all board members should be unpaid volunteers and if a board member is unable to handle the expense, he/she should resign and give the seat to someone who can afford.

I say that all members donating to SPA should be given the disclaimer about how the funds are going to be spent. It should not be up to a small group of people to decide.

I propose the following form to be given to each donating member:

 

Item                                                                Amount                      

Pumping latrines                                                 $_____________            

Plumbing maintenance                                         $_____________

Cleaning supplies                                                $_____________

Legal counselors                                               $_____________

Lobbyist s                                                         $_____________

Newsletter production                                         $_____________

Website maintenance                                          $_____________

Airport supplies and maintenance                           $_____________            

Board members gas and travel                               $_____________

etc etc etc etc etc

This way the people will decide what’s more important to them and where the money should go. I also propose that the issue of reimbursement was voted on by all SPA members who donated at least $1 to the organization with the exception of current board members. Sorry, those who never contributed should not be given the vote - it's a conflict of interest. Same applies to the board members who I have nothing against.

 

Major Tom

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 #38 
I might have it wrong with respect to local law. Perhaps the Ranger was referring to no issues regarding nudity in the Inyo County.  At any rate, I was assured that clothing optional practice at the springs is not on the Park's radar for revision. Hopefully that will hold true over time. And yes, things are known to change from time to time. Enjoy the time!

Hi Desert Warrior

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 #39 
Sorry Major Tom.  California does have a law on nudity, its called indecent exposure.  It is the Penal Code section that cites are being issued to people that are nude at San Onofre State Beach that was recently closed to nudist from a right wing christen complaint to the Cal state park director.  The same for Gavieota State Beach near Lompoc.  The law has been on the books for many, many years and its up to local authority for enforcement.  Until recently, San Francisco has aloud nudity on public streets in the castro district.  Then against public opinion the city council pass an ordnance forbidding it, and are subject to citations.  Inyo county has an ordnance that says you will be naked when using the county hot springs in Tepoca or be fined.  As I said before,  a class action suit was brought against the state park over the San Onofre incident and the court refused to hear it stating the case has no merit.  I am glad to know the National Park has no objection to nudity at the springs.  But governments in the past has spoke with fork tongue.  So I will soak and rest until the revised MOU comes out in 2014 and see what happens.
Major Tom

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 #40 
Okay, I am catching up here. On the issue of nudity and the law: Last year I spoke with the head ranger of DVNP who informed me that the Park enforces local laws. There is no law in the state against nudity. The Park Service has no laws of their own (they only enforce local and state laws) regarding nudity. There are precedents, where nudity is practiced on National Park lands in other states. The clothing optional policy at the springs is under no threat from the NPS.
Salt Peter

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 #41 
Thank you for posting this important information.
I fit the stereotype. White male early 40s. I do have an asian girlfriend who loves the springs. Quite a few of my friends also have asian significant others who and they all love going out to Saline.
paul belanger

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 #42 
Silver Bob, you stated:

"SPA has been begging for volunteers to help formulate a Management Plan for the Springs for years. They'd be thrilled to get anyone to commit to doing something toward this end. I don't think the demographics of the volunteers matter one bit."

What exactly is SPA asking for?  Is this something someone could do unilaterally?  Or should we work with the DVNP administration?  If I wanted to help "formulate a management plan" what would I do as a first step towards that end?

As for demographics, I am a white guy in his mid-fifties.  Not offering much diversity from the average Saliner profile here.  Traditionally, it has been white people in my age group, and older, that have used the springs.  That being observed, I have never seen anyone of any color, race, creed, etc., being treated poorly, or made to feel unwelcome, at the springs, certainly not due to those factors.  My experience is that all who have shown up get treated equally, unless their behavior warrants otherwise.  Because we may not be a "diverse" user group, does that mean we should have less rights?  Might that be true?  Might the demographics matter?  I certainly hope not.



 





Hi Desert Warrior

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 #43 
I sure hope so.  California State Parks are enforcing no nudity on their beaches and are citing.  A class action suit was brought against the state and the courts struck it down saying there was no merit for the suit.
oregonjohn

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 #44 
I did bring up the subject of nudity at the meeting. It wasn't even on their radar at all. Most of them even chimed in that there are other National Parks that allow users to be nude in. I really got the feeling that nudity at the Springs is not an issue with the NPS. 

OJ
SilverBob

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 #45 
Please cite the statute that prohibits simple nudity in this or any other National Park..I don't believe it exists.

Park Rangers will enforce State or local laws against nudity, but currently, neither California nor Inyo County have such laws on the books.

Just relax and enjoy a soak!
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