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Salt Peter

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 #1 
I've been visiting the Springs for about a year and have found it to be worth the effort to get there and a truly special place. Reading the itinerary for the Sierra Club is truly disturbing.
Sam D.

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 #2 
I am very concerned about the usage of herbicides as discussed in the article.
Sheep and other animals come to the water sources to drink and get exposed to herbicides. The herbicides can also sip into the ground and penetrate water sources. I went to my garage and looked at the warning label of the "all natural herbicide weed remover". The warning made me throw it away. I am pretty certain the herbicides used to kill Tamarisk are more poisonous than mine.
I am not trying to argue - just saying.
matmiss

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 #3 
The Sierra Club has paid for a commercial license ($212) to take paid trip people into the Park.  Removing tamarisk from the side canyons is a good idea, but they do it by pulling them out while they're little.  This won't affect tortoises or big horn sheep - in fact it will make more water available to them (and the burros). 
Sam D.

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 #4 
Check out this article about Sierra's club camping at the springs. In case Sierra Club objects the hot springs existence, we can use this to prove that

http://www.sierraclub.org/outings/national/brochure/12348a.aspx

1) They (Sierra Club members) like the springs, they charge money for the trips, they cook at the springs commercially, they use the facilities, they visit areas visited by Native Americans and they disturb the fragile ecology
2) They use herbicides to eradicate non-native vegetation in canyons
3) The impact of herbicides on endangered species has not been studied and I think using them near the water sources pollutes the water and hence, it's the Sierra's club's work that IMO causes the decline of turtles and long horn sheep and whatever else is endangered.
BigDave

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 #5 
I understand that the Bats live in the Palms if so the NPS will be destroying their nests if the Palms are removed. The palms are not spreading anyways.
Hi Desert Warrior

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 #6 
A Ranger at the Bishop open house told me the Washington Palm tree drinks up to 300 gallons of water a day.  So, I did what I do best- research.  According to Gregory Palm Farms of California, when Washington Palm trees (Washingtonia Rubulta) are growing to maturity, they consume 10 gallons of water a day.  When they reach maturity they consume far less than 10 gallions of daily water.  These trees are not directly fed by the source pool but by the run off of the soaking pools and have been for over 72 years with no effect to the source pools. 
ltlredjeep

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Posts: 26
 #7 
The Furnace Creek Inn is a commercial center and as such their palm trees (that are also trimmed and maintained) would be consider part of their "landscaping".  Good luck trying to get the NPS to consider the palms at the Springs to be "landscaping".
Sam D.

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 #8 
NPS is afraid that all 20 palm trees are going to spread out and destroy all native vegetation covering the entire surface of Death Valley and eventually replacing the entire territory of the United States. The palm trees are evil and have to be destroyed to avoid the collapse of civilization. The facts that palm trees need water to survive and in decades of existence have not spread out are conveniently left out.


I have lifted these links from here:

http://naturistaction.org/AlertsAdvisoriesUpdates/ADVISORIES/CA_2012_DPR_scandal/ca_2012_dpr_scandal.html

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/07/20/4645141/state-parks-director-resigns.html

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78782.html

I am curious if the same situation exists within the NPS realm? I am sure if dug deep a bunch of unused resources can be uncovered.
Lysdexic

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 #9 
What I don't understand is how they can talk about removing the non-native plants because they are afraid they will spread. 

Have any of them ever driven past the Furnace Creek Inn?
matmiss

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Posts: 43
 #10 
which makes it even more important to send in comments!!  The next crack we get at this is when they release a draft plan - then we'll know for sure.  Don't give up!!  Send in reasonable comments which answer their concerns as listed in #1 and #2 and your reasonable ideas of how to make things work.  Don't know how much they can bend the "regs", but they've managed to bend them so far....  Convince them Saline is NOT like any other NPS property and needs to be treated as such!  One size does not fit all in this case.  
ltlredjeep

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 #11 
HDW.....When you read the report with the stated concerns, this goose is already cooked. NPS personal are all on the same team, playing by the rules already set by the NPS and their function is to enforce those rules. The NPS "Environmentalist" person in charge doesn't need to do anything "nefarious" just simpily follow the NPS rules.  There is little if anything at the Springs that is in compliance with NPS rules.  What are the chances that the Springs will get some sort of "Special Environmental Wavier" somewhere between slim and none even if there was such a thing.  Does anyone think the members of the parole board haven't decided if they are going to release Charlie Manson until the day of the hearing and they sit down at the table to take into account the opinions of the "family" members. The decision to bring the Springs into compliance with NPS rules has already been made, the process has started and the handwriting is on the wall.  The so called "scoping" or public input is just one of the necessary steps (as shown on their story boards) in this process to put their compliance plan into affect.  The only good thing (if there is such a thing) is the time table.  We should all enjoy the Springs as it is for the next few years, because it is about to be changed forever......
Hi Desert Warrior

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Posts: 202
 #12 
Very important, click on the above Park Service website, then scroll to the bottom and view Potential Issues #1 and #2.  These speculations needs to be address and I beleive are views of the Death Valley Park Service environmentalist.  The power of ideological zealotry, whether religious or environmental, to trump all questions of practicality, historical preservation and reverence for prior generations.  The zealot's version of purity, and only his version, matters.  It seems that when the Park Superintendent assign the Management Plan and Environmental Impact Statment to the Parks environmental person and not a disinterested third party, is like turning the fox loose in the chicken house.  Who's to say that he would edit the questionairs to his views and discard the contary before presenting the results to the Park Superintendent?

     
Echo
 #13 
Description:Death Valley National Park is pleased to announce the initiation of the public scoping process for developing the Saline Valley Warm Springs Management Plan and environmental impact statement (EIS). Your input and engagement are important to this planning process.

The purpose of the Saline Valley Warm Springs Management Plan/EIS is to:
• Provide a framework for natural and cultural resources management at the Warm Springs area;
• Provide a framework for administration and operations at the Warm Springs area;
• Provide a framework for managing visitor use at the Warm Springs area;
• Provide guidance for Death Valley National Park managers as they work with various stakeholders of the Warm Springs area; and
• Balance management of natural resources, ethnographic resources, and visitor use.

The National Park Service is seeking public and agency input in order to help define issues and shape alternatives for this planning process.

http://parkplanning.nps.gov/document.cfm?parkID=297&projectID=39438&documentID=47178
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