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Posts: 422
Concerned Springer,  I found a solution to your problem!  Please watch carefully!

Big Jeff

Posts: 106
Will somebody please post a picture of this wacknut so that the men in white coats will know who to pick up for the 72 Hour hold
James Sel

Posts: 375

Looks like we are all going to die from a rusty pipe.
Concerned Springer

Another concerned springer who just came back contacted me with the following info:

The valve at the Sunrise has not been fixed. It’s still leaking and marking the wall with rust.

The valve at the Crystal is not located behind the wall. It’s the one in the channel by the crystals. It also leaks and the pipe is rusted out. What Silver Bon calls patina I call Iron Oxide. Rust adds iron ions to the pool water leading to iron overload through skin absorption. If visitors think they are getting mineral water, they are wrong. Iron ions block most of mineral absorption. Here are some issues with too much iron:

Excess iron in vital organs, even in mild cases of iron overload, increases the risk for liver disease (cirrhosis, cancer), heart attack or heart failure, diabetes mellitus, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis, metabolic syndrome, hypothyroidism, hypogonadism, numerous symptoms and in some cases premature death. Iron mismanagement resulting in overload can accelerate such neurodegenerative diseases as Alzheimer’s, early-onset Parkinson’s, Huntington’s, epilepsy and multiple sclerosis.

Symptoms, signs and diseases resulting from too much iron (iron overload):

  • chronic fatigue
  • joint pain
  • abdominal pain
  • liver disease (cirrhosis, liver cancer)
  • diabetes mellitus  
  • irregular heart rhythm
  • heart attack or heart failure
  • skin color changes (bronze, ashen-gray green)
  • loss of period
  • loss of interest in sex
  • osteoarthritis
  • osteoporosis
  • hair loss
  • enlarged liver or spleen
  • impotence
  • infertility
  • hypogonadism
  • hypothyroidism
  • hypopituitarism
  • depression
  • adrenal function problems
  • early onset neurodegenerative disease
  • elevated blood sugar
  • elevated liver enzymes
  • elevated iron (serum iron, serum ferritin)

Is this the kind of ambiance we want?

The visitor stayed at the Lower Springs, so he cannot report about Palm Springs.


Big Jeff

Posts: 106

Oh it is so terrible to hear that the Springs have gone to crap and are in such disarray and nothing has been fixed ever! The pools are full of sand, the grass has died and the place is completely over grown.
Oh wait Oh wait I must be confused, Silver Bob say's that most is A OK, Hmmmm I think that the Springs are running just like they do.

Thanks Silver Bob for your report and for your recon on Steele.    Now may we commence the season.


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Posts: 422

Due to the amount of time we spent just getting to the springs, and the need to get my damaged truck back to camp, I didn't have as much time to look around as I'd like to have had. However, I did make some observations that I'd like to share.


Palm Springs:


The exposed pipe that Mitch photographed should be the highest priority repair issue of all, in my opinion. There's over 15 feet of pipe exposed, and it's only getting worse. Digging a trench in that tufa for the pipe will not be easy, but it's going to have to be done.


Both tubs were clean and running. The Wizard Pool was turned off, but it was obvious that it had just been cleaned and refilled. The water was way too hot for me to get in. The mineral build up that Mitch mentioned seems to have been at least partially addressed. The ridge is still there, but it's been scraped or sanded to remove those sharp points that build up over time. Does it need to be completely removed? As a matter of personal preference, as long as it doesn't get uncomfortable, I'd probably leave it alone. At the same time, it wouldn't bother me if someone took it upon himself to remove it. It's just not that big a deal to me.


The inlet valve for the Volcano Tub will not shut off. I recall someone rebuilding that valve last year, so maybe it's beyond repair and should be replaced. The drain valve opens and closes as it should.


All the palm trees around the Wizard Pool and shower area have been trimmed, with all the dead fronds trimmed up to about 10' above ground. 2 of the palms have had all the fronds completely removed. It appears that similar work is occurring near the volcano pool, but nothing was happening while we were there.


The shower and sink are in fine working order. I didn't have time to inspect the outhouse or take inventory of supplies.


Lower Springs:


Predictably, the lawn and pond areas are gorgeous! The grass is lush and healthy and the trees and bushes are attractively trimmed. I didn't have time to walk all around the camp area, so I didn't see any other campers around. We saw several burros wandering around camp, but I saw no droppings on the lawn. Maybe the fence is working.


The shower is working just fine, with both hot and cold water available at the turn of a valve. The tub itself didn't feel slippery or slimy at all. There were a few mesquite leaves on the bottom, consistent with what might be blown in by the typical afternoon breeze. In the time-honored Saline tradition, if you think it needs “major scrubbing”, go ahead and scrub it. Nobody will stop you. It's OK with me as it is.


The cracks in the Sunrise Pool seem to have been caulked with some type of brown sealer. I don't know what kind it is, or how well it will hold up in the sun, but I guess we'll find out. The pipe and valve have not been changed. I turned the valve off and the flow stopped completely. I opened it again and there seemed to be plenty of water flowing into the pool. Since that's exactly how it's supposed to work, I see no reason to mess with it. What some might call rust, I call patina, and I think it adds to the ambiance. I don't need shiny chrome plumbing fixtures and a squeeky clean shower tub in the middle of Saline Valley. If that's your thing, maybe you should try Furnace Creek Inn.


The Crystal Pool looked good, even though we arrived just before the posted cleaning time of 4:00. We did get a quick soak before heading back to camp (yes, we all showered first!). I didn't look at the valve, which is behind the short wall behind the sink, so I can't comment on its condition.


All in all, I believe that as folks gear up for the upcoming busy season, most will be quite pleased with the overall condition of the camp. Those things I mentioned that actually need work will get the attention they deserve, just as they always have. Meanwhile, those who like to snivel and complain about everything will have a nice lush shady lawn area from which to do so, just as they always have.


Happy First Day of Autumn!

Concerned Springer
""Concerned Springer", I don't have the answers to your questions. I will be attempting to visit the springs via Steele Pass on September 20th. I'll look around and post my findings here."

So, Silver Bob, what are the findings?
Rusty Scout

Posts: 37
Here's a thought. JUST IGNORE THE TROLLS
Big Jeff

Posts: 106
Un Concerned

You clearly did not take the advice above, This is your special place
See I made it easy for you and take note of the first post there.
Concerned Springer
Big Jeff, “You clearly do not understand the dynamics of the Saline Warm Springs User Community” – there is no dynamics anymore. It used to be the community driving the work. We built pools and maintained plumbing. But now, people rely on the camp host and the camp host does not do much. He became complacent if not utterly antagonistic towards most visitors. I bet he thinks that crumbling infrastructure will deter people. I propose SPA (if it wants to stay relevant) comes up with a set of daily duties for the camp host that he needs to follow or risk being replaced. Something in terms of

•    8AM – Collect wild burro droppings – he feeds them he should clean up after them.
•    10AM – 6 PM Clean every pool per schedule – not the one he soaks in.
•    1 PM – 7 PM Clean outhouses when needed.
•    3 PM - Check on pipes, fix when needed. 
•    ETC. ETC. ETC.

Nothing should be set in stone and if visitors want to take over some of his duties they can, so LL can continue his work on building his shanty fortress of solitude.
Salt Peter

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Posts: 664
Week before Halloween might be doable. I need to know ASAP as I will be submitting my work availability schedule. I usually try to be there in late october sometime regardless if there is "work" to be done at the springs.

Posts: 294
Thank you Big Jeff!
I'm planning going in the week before Halloween and figure it will be a work trip. Anyone want to do a real organized work party thing at that time? It would be nice to spruce it up a bit before the holiday.
Would dragging Bat Rock Road help it? I have a vehicle that could do it and infinite patience.
Big Jeff

Posts: 106
Un concerned springer

You clearly do not understand the dynamics of the Saline Warm Springs User Community. Also you fail to see the value that Lee provides to the Park Service and to visitors alike. This thread is about Camp Needs not personal misguided complaints. A special place was created just for your endless rants and it still exists in the General Topics section, use it or risk being Ostracized (To exclude (a person) from society or from a community, by not communicating with (them) or by refusing to acknowledge (their) presence; to refuse to talk to or associate with; to shun.) from the community. I am thankful that you are limited in the number of days you can camp at the Springs.
Concerned Springer
Winks, when I need your advice on where to camp I can assure you I’ll ask you. I am talking about serious issues here so I do not need your advice. I’ve been coming to the springs for many years and it hurts me to see all the dilapidation and neglect. So it’s not up to my standards which are not high but reasonable. The springs existed before LL took over and will hopefully exist way after. I seek change to current practices and customs and if you are not up to serious conversation then you can continue to visit the springs and soak in the camp host’s filth and enjoy decaying facilities. 

Avatar / Picture

Posts: 44
Un, I mean Concerned Springer, feel free to find some other place to camp as the current springs clientele and management are obviously not up to your high standards.
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