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Mr.T

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Posts: 40
 #16 
btoothill -- What are you reading?  I actually said the exact opposite of making it sound like "certain death".

One can usually go with nothing but beer and grandpa's junker pick-up and have a wonderful time, just like those high-school girls mentioned in the previous post you liked, and couldn't top.

The point is that the high probability of success lulls some to believe that first-aid kits, extra water, extra food, maps, leaving word with someone who expects your return, etc. is a waste -- Just go for it.

The odds very much favor no emergencies, injuries, or break-downs.  But some people don't realize they are playing a game of odds with a very low probability of losing, and a high price if they do.  Here's one quote that made me interpret the post that way:
"I get a little sick of the 10 essentials boyscout propaganda. The only thing carrying all that stuff guarantees is that sooner or later you are going to have to use it. Carrying a security blanket gives a false sense of safety. It's better to be prepared yourself than carry stuff that you think will take care of you."

If one goes out in the wild often enough, eventually every vehicle breaks down, and everyone eventually gets sick, injured, lost, bitten, etc.  Been there, done that, and since I'm in my mid-fifties, some more than once.  You're of course correct that one can make the odds better by not taking "stupid risks", but the odds never go anywhere even close to zero.  Maybe the difference between us is that I see randomness as much more significant than not taking "stupid risks".

"
neither of you have experienced truly challenging terrain or conditions." We haven't been discussing truly challenging terrain -- But coincidentally I was thinking the same, but opposite. [wink]  In any case, sounds like you are experienced and know what you're doing, so enjoy and best of luck!

Quote:
Mr.T and Big Jeff. Relax. You are both taking this way too seriously. I'm heading into the springs next week with a few friends via Dyer NV, through the dunes and Steel pass. I promise you we will be more prepared than 99% of the people that head into DV and be traveling in a rigs that are way overbuilt for anything DV has to offer.

My point in agreeing with bmxmtbman was that if you use your head and don't take stupid risks there is no way you should get into serious trouble out here. You guys are making this sound like certain death if you venture in...which clearly shows neither of you have experienced truly challenging terrain or conditions.
amyllama24

Registered:
Posts: 1
 #17 
Thank you. I had no idea it was so popular and that someone had a radio and such. They are here now. They stayed an extra day. I am really glad there is such great support and so many people willing to help if someone gets in trouble. All is well and I was just being silly. Enjoy you trips!
Amy
Big Jeff

Registered:
Posts: 98
 #18 
btoothill

I'm trying to make a point here, BE PREPARED, and in no way did any of us say that it was certain death to venture in to Saline Valley.   You, by endorsing bmxmtbman, buy into everything he said and now you own it.   I was only able to make sense of a few things in his ramblings.   You now state that you are well prepared and driving overbuilt vehicles, that's great, that's what we hope people will strive for.   I am not saying that everybody needs a Rock Crawler, a Prerunner or exotic 4x4 to be able to enjoy Saline Valley,
but a well prepared and stocked vehicle is always recommended in any remote area.  As for my experience you should be careful what you ASSume.   Start with being a former Off Road Racer (read Baja,Etc.), White Water River Runner and throw in a couple of XR 600's, well enough said.
btoothill

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Posts: 2
 #19 
Mr.T and Big Jeff. Relax. You are both taking this way too seriously. I'm heading into the springs next week with a few friends via Dyer NV, through the dunes and Steel pass. I promise you we will be more prepared than 99% of the people that head into DV and be traveling in a rigs that are way overbuilt for anything DV has to offer.

My point in agreeing with bmxmtbman was that if you use your head and don't take stupid risks there is no way you should get into serious trouble out here. You guys are making this sound like certain death if you venture in...which clearly shows neither of you have experienced truly challenging terrain or conditions.

holly609

Registered:
Posts: 5
 #20 
Yes, you're being a worrier.... There has been a lot of traffic on all of the routes in and out of the valley. By a lot, I mean once or more daily on the least used routes, and every hour or so during daylight on the most used route. Nobody is dying from the elements right now unless they really had a run of terrible luck that could have happened at home. There has been snow and rain, which may have given pause to anyone thinking of leaving the safety of the springs. Any reason for one more day, I always say... Anyhow, I left there on Tuesday morning ahead of threatening weather, but not all that threatening.
Unregistered24
 #21 
I'm probably just being a worrier, but my parents and their friends were supposed to be back yesterday. I still haven't heard anything from them. Has anyone been there this last week? They go every year. Jim and Dori Stewart. My brothers name is Ryan.
Thank you
Amy
trigger

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Posts: 172
 #22 
Bmxmtbman types "It's better to be prepared yourself than carry stuff that you think will take care of you." What a tool!!! Lol. What does that even mean??? Wouldn't being "prepared yourself" mean you carry stuff that you think will take care of you? What do you suggest people do, use Jedi powers out there? Anyway Yoda I hope you don't crash on your bike and need some of our Boyscout gear to help you out [smile] BE PREPARED OUT THERE!!!
Big Jeff

Registered:
Posts: 98
 #23 
bmxmtbman and btoohill    

Please wear name tags so I will know you don't need any help should I find you crashed or broken down out there and won't need any of the various unnecessary safety and survival gear that I carry like water, first aid, gas, tools, food, etc.   By the way My Verizon smart phone is pretty stupid in Saline Valley,  I have never gotten a signal there.   I am thinking of getting a DeLORME IN REACH sat communicator so I can let SAR know where they can pick up your bodies in case the buzzards are not a
dead give away.
Mr.T

Registered:
Posts: 40
 #24 
I'll predict you'll feel quite differently as risk and probability eventually provide some greater negative experiences.

People typically don't asses risk very well when the odds are high in your favor, but the risk is immense if one looses. For example, if the true odds of death were 1 in 100 from enjoying something in a particular situation, there would probably be quite a bit of confidence built up just before the odds catch up to death.

Statements like "
Your robust wilderness medical kit is not going to stop you getting hurt, only you can do that." sound bold and confident, but are illogical.  A first aid kit was never intended to stop one from getting hurt, it's to help if/when one does get hurt.  And eventually, nearly everyone does.  To believe that one will never have injuries requires faith I can't take seriously.

Quote:
Here is my experience. I have ridden three different motorcycles to the springs, in all seasons, alone, in all conditions. One was a DR 200, a tiny little bike. One was a DR 650, similar to the KLR. I also ride my KTM there frequently, and most of the time alone. I have also driven a pickup on all roads, and used to cruise in my Subaru, alone. I met a group of highschool girls at the springs in a civic with only beer to drink. They were fine. You are not going to die in Saline if you have any sense at all. It is not really that isolated. Hell, you get cell reception at the springs, and at other locations in the valley. Jets fly through on a daily basis. You get in that much trouble, light your car on fire, someone will get you. This is clearly an exaggeration to illustrate a point, but I get a little sick of the 10 essentials boyscout propaganda. The only thing carrying all that stuff guarantees is that sooner or later you are going to have to use it. Carrying a security blanket gives a false sense of safety. It's better to be prepared yourself than carry stuff that you think will take care of you. 

My advice. Just go. Figure it out. If it gets to be too much, turn around, if you still can. You could die, you might not. You won't know unless you try. But don't take my word for it. I'm just some guy on the internet. "Good judgement is the result of experience and experience is the result of bad judgement." Your robust wilderness medical kit is not going to stop you getting hurt, only you can do that.


Quote:
Frigging great post. I can't top it so I won't try.  What he said...
btoothill

Registered:
Posts: 2
 #25 
[[Here is my experience. I have ridden three different motorcycles to the springs, in all seasons, alone, in all conditions. One was a DR 200, a tiny little bike. One was a DR 650, similar to the KLR. I also ride my KTM there frequently, and most of the time alone. I have also driven a pickup on all roads, and used to cruise in my Subaru, alone. I met a group of highschool girls at the springs in a civic with only beer to drink. They were fine. You are not going to die in Saline if you have any sense at all. It is not really that isolated. Hell, you get cell reception at the springs, and at other locations in the valley. Jets fly through on a daily basis. You get in that much trouble, light your car on fire, someone will get you. This is clearly an exaggeration to illustrate a point, but I get a little sick of the 10 essentials boyscout propaganda. The only thing carrying all that stuff guarantees is that sooner or later you are going to have to use it. Carrying a security blanket gives a false sense of safety. It's better to be prepared yourself than carry stuff that you think will take care of you. 

My advice. Just go. Figure it out. If it gets to be too much, turn around, if you still can. You could die, you might not. You won't know unless you try. But don't take my word for it. I'm just some guy on the internet. "Good judgement is the result of experience and experience is the result of bad judgement." Your robust wilderness medical kit is not going to stop you getting hurt, only you can do that. ]]

Frigging great post. I can't top it so I won't try.  What he said... 
Linz

Registered:
Posts: 6
 #26 
From my understanding, the county doesn't usually grade Bat Rock Road when they come through. Since the road is in really rough shape (aka very bouncy!), PLEASE PLEASE grab a shovel and adopt a bump when you come through. A group of us (shout-out to Richard!) spent several hours one morning knocking the corners off some of the biggest washes to hopefully make them a bit easier to traverse, especially in vehicles with a longer wheel base. That said, there is still A LOT of work to do! If you don't carry a shovel in your regular kit, there are several available in the lower springs' common area. Try to knock the tops off any bumps, and throw the dirt in the ditch next to it to smooth things out. If everyone does a little bit, the road will be much less sucky!
bmxmtbman

Registered:
Posts: 43
 #27 
Here is my experience. I have ridden three different motorcycles to the springs, in all seasons, alone, in all conditions. One was a DR 200, a tiny little bike. One was a DR 650, similar to the KLR. I also ride my KTM there frequently, and most of the time alone. I have also driven a pickup on all roads, and used to cruise in my Subaru, alone. I met a group of highschool girls at the springs in a civic with only beer to drink. They were fine. You are not going to die in Saline if you have any sense at all. It is not really that isolated. Hell, you get cell reception at the springs, and at other locations in the valley. Jets fly through on a daily basis. You get in that much trouble, light your car on fire, someone will get you. This is clearly an exaggeration to illustrate a point, but I get a little sick of the 10 essentials boyscout propaganda. The only thing carrying all that stuff guarantees is that sooner or later you are going to have to use it. Carrying a security blanket gives a false sense of safety. It's better to be prepared yourself than carry stuff that you think will take care of you. 

My advice. Just go. Figure it out. If it gets to be too much, turn around, if you still can. You could die, you might not. You won't know unless you try. But don't take my word for it. I'm just some guy on the internet. "Good judgement is the result of experience and experience is the result of bad judgement." Your robust wilderness medical kit is not going to stop you getting hurt, only you can do that. 


Big Jeff

Registered:
Posts: 98
 #28 
Alaska

The first thing is, what ever your decision, don't go alone.   Second, I have not been been there since the weather carnage and can only offer advice the way I see it.   You should start with assessing your riding skills.   Your statement "I don't want to drive"(the bike ?) makes me wonder.   The KLR is a heavy bike and you will have to traverse rock covered trails and deep sand, add in camping gear, ETC.  not much fun.   Remember you will burn more fuel and drink more water to cover this terrain.   Hopefully others who have seen the current conditions will comment.
AlaskaIsCold

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Posts: 10
 #29 
Hmm...
I was wondering just how bad it is. I mean I have been reading up and jeeps and vans have been getting stuck.
But what about a Dualsport?
I was wanting to take my KLR to the springs (for my first time ever going there! I'm so happy!)
But... I don't want to drive only to be cut off from the springs by a gaping washout chasm...
So any ideas?
ExtremeRuby

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Posts: 3
 #30 
"Luck favors the Prepared" – Dr. Paul Auerbach, Wilderness Medical Society. One of my favorite quotes. He is specifically speaking of travels to remote portions of any country, especially Saline Valley. Of course, problems can occur to anyone at any time - vehicle, medical, weather, etc. But really... How much does it cost to get a weather app on your phone and check the long range forecast prior to leaving 395? Or stop in Lone Pine (Furnace Creek, or where ever) to check the forecast? I know weather events can happen fast in Saline, but if it's August and there's dark clouds on the horizon... well, you get the idea. 2WD in Saline Valley? Of course you can get through, but what about when events go south? Traction wise, 4WD is certainly part of being prepared. Towing a trailer into Saline Valley? Of course you can. However, you would be best prepared if your trailer has clearance (large new-er tires that match the vehicle), well maintained bearings, shackles and springs. Medical problems in Saline? Happens constantly; are you prepared with a robust wilderness medical kit and knowledge? Tools, bug-out bag, spare parts, water, food. I know, YOU are probably saying, "I get all of that." However, EVERY trip I've made into Saline over the years, I've ended up having to assist the unprepared - some having been grossly under-prepared. Now, I have the attitude that it's an "honor" to help another human in need. But really? It's my opinion that way too many heading to Saline go unprepared. (Remember, it's my "opinion.")  Going into Saline unprepared puts others out also. Those that feel the need to take care of you. I've missed multiple days at the springs only to assist others that were under-prepared. Regardless, truth is... Luck favors the prepared.
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