Saline Preservation Association

The voice of Saline Valley

 
Sign up Calendar Latest Topics
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 2 of 3      Prev   1   2   3   Next
TheOutpost

Registered:
Posts: 9
 #16 
Note to all, please refrain from trolling my thread. Saline Valley Hot Springs and preserving it is more important than Roundup and your politics. You are directly reducing the likelihood of success by this association with this behavior.

Thank you Bob from Tahoe, sounds great!
bobhuckaby

Registered:
Posts: 148
 #17 
I am occupied with the daily chores of a general civil law practice, but I would be happy to work in a support role for legal efforts of those with more time and energy, I love this place (remember "tablegate").
bob from tahoe
Stranger

Registered:
Posts: 3
 #18 
Sam D,

I would never imply that there are no hazards with the chemical used. As with all chemical treatments there are hazards involved. (Have you ever read the warning labels on the chlorine bleach used copiously to clean the tubs? I would hate to get it splashed into my eyes.)
The Sierra Club member who you talked to was wrong. Even though all participants are given a complete briefing on the chemicals used and the hazards involved, I would guess that 90% forget within a half hour or so.
This is why only trained applicators are allowed to apply the chemicals.
If you want accurate information please talk to one of the BLM personnel on the scene.
By the way the preferred method of removal is to hand pull the tamarisk wherever possible.
Chemical treatment is only used when it can't be pulled or is large enough where it has to be cut.
Salt Peter

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 617
 #19 
Pahrump summed things up perfectly.

The Sierrah Clubb (misspelled on purpose) is precisely not what is needed at the springs. Outpost please do your research about any group you decide to contact on behalf of Saline Valley. Know what their track record is in regard to what actions they've taken on enviornmental/outdoor efforts. Also please don't act on your own to represent the best interest of the springs. Contact the board of SPA if you're not finding the information you want here.

Stranger if you are referring to the more recent tamarisk removal efforts by friends of the Inyo what is important is that the NPS asked the group to leave the springs, where they were mixing the chemicals, and move the operation on the west side of SVR in Inyo County.
Sam D.

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 824
 #20 
#Stranger, when I wrote about RoundUp I just relayed what the Sierra Club members told me in person. OK, they may not be using Roundup, per your post. However, I believe, the Habitat herbicide is as poisonous as Roundup. Just google "salt of imazapyr side effects"

Here's a sample:

Imazapyr is a broad-spectrum herbicide in the imidazolinone family. Its primary uses in the U.S. are for vegetation control in forests and rights-of-way.

Imazapyr is corrosive to eyes and can cause irreversible damage. Imazapyr-containing herbicides are irritating to both eyes and skin.

Adverse effects found in laboratory animals after chronic exposure to imazapyr include the following:
fluid accumulation in the lungs of female mice, kidney cysts in male mice, abnormal blood formation in the spleen of female rats, an increase in the number of brain and thyroid cancers in male rats, and an increase in the number of tumors and cancers of the adrenal gland in female rats.

Imazapyr can persist in soil for over a year. Persistence studies suggest that imazapyr residues
damage plants at concentrations that are not detectable by laboratory analysis.
Imazapyr moves readily in soil. It has contaminated surface and ground water following aerial and ground forestry applications.

Small amounts of imazapyr (as little as 1/50 of a typical application rate) can damage crop plants.

Imazapyr exposure also has the potential to seriously impact rare plant species. The U.S. Fish and
Wildlife Service has identified 100 counties in 24 states east of the Mississippi River where
endangered species may be jeopardized by use of imazapyr.

Over a half-dozen weedy plant species have developed resistance to imazapyr
PahrumpGeorge

Registered:
Posts: 64
 #21 
It is not a bad thing for any organization to have a war chest, however I do not believe that it is time for SPA to panic; not yet. If SPA wants to begin building a war chest, for what ever purpose, then so be it.

The Saline community is fortunate to have at least two attorneys which are as passionate about the well being of springs as the rest of us. They too would like to see the springs remain much as they are today. Both of these attorneys responded to the NPS/EIS public comment request. I have read their responses and both are well done; each has a totally different, but valid, perspective. I believe that the comments by each attorney, considered  alone, would be sufficient to cause delays in the NPS regulatory process. 

After the NPS has released their proposed management plan and it is deemed necessary to undertake significant push-back, then I believe both attorneys would be willing to assist SPA. After talking to both of them, my take is that they would provide this assistance at minimal cost; there would be some expenses and they should not be expected to donate all of their time. The good news is, this matter would be heard before a federal court which is usually less expensive that district court proceedings.

I believe that the Saline community is in relatively good position and that ultimately there will not be changes which would have a significant negative impact upon the users.

Happy soaks for a long time to come.
Geo.




Stranger

Registered:
Posts: 3
 #22 
Sam D

This is how you start rumors. Round-up is NOT used to kill the tamarisk!
The two chemicals use are:
1.Habitat. Used near water sources.
 With Habitat Aquatic Weed Killer Herbicide, a single application kills shoreline grass, brush and broadleaf weeds without harming birds, fish and wildlife. It eliminates unwanted weeds in ponds, lakes and other bodies of water. It's the ideal solution for postemergent weed and brush control and targets everything from cattails to water lettuce.

https://www.sepro.com/documents/Habitat_Label.pdf

2. Pathfinder: Used away from water.

http://www.arborchem.com/label-sds/qa_Dow_PathfinderII.pdf

These are applied only by trained BLM personnel. No Sierra Club members are allowed to apply the chemicals unless they are trained to do so.

The chemicals are applied to the cut stems using a painting type method and in a strictly
controlled manor.
 


RC Pilot Jim

Registered:
Posts: 39
 #23 
We need to avoid the Sierra club. Lets talk to the Board about building a war fund and get aggressive.

I sent John Runkle, President of our Board of Directors an email on this topic.
TheOutpost

Registered:
Posts: 9
 #24 
Darn. I guess I’ll modify the question - does anyone know a specific individual in the Sierra Club or something similar that might have a sympathetic view? Not all members of an organization necessarily hold the party line .
RC Pilot Jim

Registered:
Posts: 39
 #25 
If I remember "ancient history" In the ‘80’s the Sierra club was putting pressure on
Senator Cranston to move the Springs from BLM control to Nat Park service control. And I don't think Death Valley was at National Park then. I believe it was a monument in the 80's.

I was an "off-roader" in the '70's-'80's and the Sierra Club was trying to get us off the desert's and sand dunes.

Getting back to the springs. When Cranston died or retired and Feinstein was elected, she then removed the block and voted to have control moved to Death Valley by then I believe a National Park. This happened in '93-'94.  

When the National Park got control the Sierra club as "Sam' said was probably mad they didn't buldoze the place.

So I wouldn't contact the Sierra club for help. We need someone that knows the "Inns and outs" of the law process. I have a retired lawyer friend of mine who might be able to recommend somone though if we are serious about building a "war fund" we need to do this with-in SPA Board of Directors.
Sam D.

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 824
 #26 
Whilst Sierra Club members enjoy the springs when they work in the canyons eradicating tamarisk often using RoundUp, I believe if Sierra Club gained control over the springs it would've bulldozed them right away.

https://www.biggreenradicals.com/group/sierra-club/
TheOutpost

Registered:
Posts: 9
 #27 
I wonder if we emailed someone at an operational role at the Sierra Club and asked what they would do?
RC Pilot Jim

Registered:
Posts: 39
 #28 
"Outpost" recently said: "Is it time to recruit some sort of legal effort to reduce NPS action on the hot springs?"

For the last several years I have thought we should hire a Lobbyist to defend "our rights" in Washington. We should start a legal fund. Collect maybe $100 or so per SPA member. That is how the Sierra club gets changes we don't like accomplished, They are organized, have a lobbyist and lots of lawyers in their membership and sue or threaten to sue for everything.

If the NPS discovered we were willing to fight them in court they may back off.

I have no idea what I lobbyist would cost. Maybe initially we just hire an attorney to write letters "threatening them" that action is coming if they don't compromise towards our side.

Maybe there are some attorneys that come to the springs that would help us at no charge. 

We have no power. We are standing at their door with "our hat in our hands" begging them not to end our recreational activity".

If we don't act the springs "experience" as we know it will eventually end.
Salt Peter

Avatar / Picture

Registered:
Posts: 617
 #29 
Outpost welcome to SPA.

From your other posts you stated you missed out on the comment period. All you can do now is stay informed and like the rest of us await the result of the NPS decision. SPA is working on legalities regarding the historical significance of anglo involvement/activity at springs. "Our" paradise is going to change in one way or another. Please read, if you havent already, the actual document put forth by the NPS so that you have all the information available to the public thus far.

Instagram and Facebook are social media outlets that have created a big increase in visitation during the past few years. Human beings get high off of other human beings adoring their posts on social media. So a person posts about it and it gets momentum. There are facebook groups for SVWS. This isn't all bad but does create a source for information and can instill a sense of want to visit the area for those who haven't before. These things are a double edged sword as they can produce good but also bad at the same time.
TheOutpost

Registered:
Posts: 9
 #30 
Instagram and Facebook? That makes no sense to me.
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.

Please consider supporting SPA with your tax deductible contribution