Saline Preservation Association

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peneumbra

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Posts: 94
 #1 
Feed a burro
Starve a bureaucrat



TIERRA O MUERTE!!
Salt Peter

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Posts: 609
 #2 
Yes we know you object HDW. You also used a specific term in order to pull on the heart strings since previous attempts to do so failed. Using the term genocide in regards to burro round ups, removal, and potential killing of burros is far from the same as what the term actually means. You didn't have to say Rwanda or Holocaust. It is implied and included in the use of genocide. There are plenty of other places in the world where genocide has occurred and they are all included. As I said before, feel free to foster as many burros as you can. Until that time your opinion is noted in regards to one specific aspect of what is included in the potential management plan for the area. You've stated your case.

DVExile is as far from an antagonist as I can think of. The proper context of the situation was noted and compared to what is happening in other areas where burros are competing with native species for resources.
Hi Desert Warrior

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Posts: 210
 #3 
I was not talking about BLM.  I am talking about whats going on with the administration at Death Valley National Park.  Let's see teacher, genocide- "the systematic killing of a whole people or nation",  in this case I applied it to whats going on for the last two years with the Burros in the Park.  What are you smoking or popping pills?  I never said anything about Rwanda or the Holocaust, racially offensive?  REALLY?.  As in the past, an antagonist comes along like the "un" who thinks they are holy er that thou and likes to belittle people in an insulting way to feed their ego.  You, the little child that you are with your insults can just move on down the road with you tail between your legs.  As this is the last commitment you will get out of me.  I won't stoop low to any of your insults and just consider the source.  The Saline preservation has no objections to the park closing off the watering holes at the springs.  So the Burros can't drink water in the desert.  I object!
DVExile

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Posts: 49
 #4 
“What's the big deal with the Burros anyway?”

I think you need to do some basic reading on what’s happening in BLM managed land where burros and horses have stopped being rounded up. It isn’t good for anything in the environment including the burros and horses that are starving.

As to “genocide” maybe try some more basic research - like the dictionary. And consider how ridiculous you sound when you compare relocating animals to things like Rwanda and the Holocaust. Words have meaning believe it or not. Use the correct words or you’ll diminish your own position since reasonable people will see what you write as ill considered and racially offensive hyperbole.
Hi Desert Warrior

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Posts: 210
 #5 
True the Burros are guess to the Big Horn and the Big Horn are guest to the horses 12,000 years ago.  The Burro was introduce into California in 1753 by Missionaries from Sonora Mexico en route to the Missions.  As Congress stated they are part of the living history of our past.  As for the Big Horn, this was brought up at the 2012 meeting with NPS who stated the Burros were competing with the Big Horn for food.  A couple of months later a research paper was posted on the internet that there was no competition with the Big Horn.  Big Horns prefer rugged mountains for safety and security and Burros prefer the valleys and plateau for food.  As far as genocide,  what would you call it when Mr. Reynolds declared he plans to remove ALL Burros from the NPS and other areas that the park governs, including any Burros and Wild Horses that may come into the park from Nevada.  If you were at the meeting then you heard it from his own words.  What's the big deal with the Burros anyway?  They hurt no one, there are people that go to the springs that don't like the animals and make false reports to NPS.  Including Lee feeding the animals with bales of hay.  You will never see sheep at the springs and if you did you will not see any vegetation in the area.  They have a ferocious appetite for vegetation.  As I said in the past, this is the Burros home and we are the uninvited guest.  "Can't we all get along"?
Salt Peter

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 #6 
HDW we know your stance on the burros as that was your main concern at the public meetings. The burros are guests to the big horn. Genocide? Really? Maybe you can adopt a few. Pretty sure that thousands of years ago had the native Americans had burros to hunt they would have. Instead they had big horn sheep and they depicted hunts in many places with petros and pictos. Would you be ok if the Tribe gets control of the area that they hunt burros? Would that then be definable as "genocide" by you too?

Burros are cute, I've enjoyed observing them in the wilds but I would prefer more sheep instead of burros.

You were there at the meetings. You heard from Mr. Reynolds that they want to hear from people so that the NPS may formulate a management plan that can hopefully appease most users.
Hi Desert Warrior

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Posts: 210
 #7 
Sorry to say, the SPA was not included with the discussions.  All I can say is to wait and see what the NPS does and what Alternative they decide to impose or if the springs are turned over to the tribe.  The tribe Homestead Act was decided by Congress.
tronaborn

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Posts: 91
 #8 
HDW,  You make the jump from "the park and Tribe would work cooperatively to review and adapt park management actions at the site" to "destroy or return all the springs to the Tribe".  That seems pretty alarmist to me and I just don't think that's justified by anything I've read or heard. I personally wish that SPA was represented in the discussions between the NPS and the Tribe but I think we just have to wait and see.  The community that SPA represents, the community that loves and has been taking care of that place for 70 or more years is a whole lot bigger than the 300 member Timbisha Shoshone tribe and we are not powerless here in shaping the outcome of the management plan.  You'll probably have to have the last word but I'm going to leave it there.


Hi Desert Warrior

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Posts: 210
 #9 
I have a copy of Saline Valley Warm Springs draft Management Plan issued by the Death Valley National Park.  They had public hearings on the plan.  There are five alternatives proposed by NPS.  Alternative one would continue to remain current management with no changes.  On page vii It states " No action alternative (alternative one) cannot be selected as the preferred alternative."   At the end of the other  four alternatives it states:  "Under the action alternatives, the park and Tribe would work cooperatively to review and adapt park management actions at the site, as well as shared resource protection and stewardship activities."   If the Tribe takes control of the springs, they have declared the springs as a holy site in the past.  That could close down the springs for public use or restrict the use as the Tribe sees fit.  The Park Superintendent Mike Reynolds admitted close door meetings with the Tribe about the fate of the springs.  This is based on the Timbisha Shoshone Homeland Act of 2000, (Homeland Act Public Law 106-423).  My concern is the Burro genocide that is going on in the Park.  For two years the Park Service under Superintendent Reynolds has been rounding up the Burros by horse and helicopter and brought to a corral at Furnace Creek.  There a Vet checks them for any health problems.  If the Burros can be domesticated then they are shipped to Texas.  Those that are to old or can't be domesticated will be euthanized.  The round up includes the National Park, Mojave National Preserve, and areas of the Wilderness Preserve under the Parks control.   Mr. Reynolds said the Wild free - roaming horses and Burro Act signed by President Nixon dose not pertain to him.  In 1971, Congress did declare that Wild Burros are "living symbols of the historic and pioneer spirit of the West". Therefore, his actions are destroying part of California's living history.  Of the four alternatives he includes fencing around the springs and soaking pools to prevent the Burros from drinking the water.  Very, very animal cruelly on his part.  These animals have been living in the desert for over a hundred years, this is their home and we are uninvited guest trying to get rid of them.  What a shame, what a shame!
tronaborn

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Posts: 91
 #10 
I have never heard or read a peep about NPS efforts that might "destroy or return all the springs to the Tribe", other than from people who are afraid that could happen.  I'm not aware of anything written or spoken from the Park Service in that regard.  If I worked with the Park I would be very leery about taking those steps because they know there are a lot of us who would vigorously protest any such action.  I'm personally not worried about this happening.
Hi Desert Warrior

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Posts: 210
 #11 
I would take a wait and see the out come of what the NPS decides to do about Saline.  If they plan to destroy or turn all the springs to the Tribe.  Then maybe the Congressman can intercede on the preservation's behalf to return the springs back to the  custom and practice before 1994, with some slight modifications, or return the springs back to BLM control. 
Just my thoughts on the subject.
Salt Peter

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Posts: 609
 #12 
Outpost this may be a thread you started but no one is trolling. You are on a public forum and hence this thread does not belong to you nor do you have a say in how members respond. Reminding me of the hopper that hopped along and the "un".
PahrumpGeorge

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Posts: 63
 #13 
Hi D. W.
Obviously, we should accept all viable assistance. At this point in the regulatory process, specifically, what would you request the congressman to do? I don't see any specific recommendation from the NPS which which could be addressed legislatively.

Happy Soaks.
Geo.
Hi Desert Warrior

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Posts: 210
 #14 
Here is a person that might be a huge feather in the hat.  Its Congressman Paul Cook 8th district Congressman for the districts of San Bernardino, Inyo, and Mono Counties.  https://cook house.gov/contact/offices/apple-valley-district-office
He introduced a bill to open roads in the desert for off roading and mining operations.  The bill as passed the committee and is on its next step for congress approval.  I think if he is aware of whats going on with NPS and Saline he might be interested in getting involved. At least I hope so.
RC Pilot Jim

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Posts: 39
 #15 
I got a response from Board President John this morning. He will run the idea of building a war fund by the board members and get back to me.
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