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James Sel

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Posts: 315
 #61 
Sparky of SoCal ......Then you are not one this concerns glad you have the abilities too. I'm sure their are more like you around here. My point is many of our group are not off roaders and the roads are beyond there capabilities.  Mainly because of they car they drive in.

Paul I here that at one point Miller would not go in the South Pass after the storms last year. I wasn't sure if it was true or not. So I called them and Yes they are will go in if called. ........just figured it would be worth finding out first hand.
paul belanger

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 #62 

I have talked with John at Miller's Tow.  He said they will come and get anyone, anywhere out in Death Valley.  For a price.  They are in business to pull people outta there.  Have you seen those big 4x4 towing rigs out on 395 in front of their shop?  What do you think pays for those rigs?  He has pulled full size RV's outta there.  He pulled a Unimog outta there.  I would think the price is 2-5K, maybe more.  He said they don't take AAA at all anymore and will run your credit card before doing the work.  I guess if he thought your rig was worth the price of a tow, he might pull it outta there and impound it if you can't pay.

As for Saline Springers and hardcore 4x4 persons like Silver Bob being completely different, I totally agree.  I am not an "off roader".  I am a Saliner with a rig that I believe will get me in and out of there MOST of the time.  Hell, I have my wife and my 10 year old son and my 8 year old daughter with me.  I take personal responsibility for the care of my family.  I would not put them in jeopardy recklessly.  We have plenty of gas, 2 spares, food, water, a satellite phone, a credit card.  Slog through my old posts you will find a story about breaking a leaf spring on our trailer, using a motorcycle tie down to secure the axle enough to get to the springs, where Lee had a loaner leaf he installed for me. Worst case, we spend the night on the dirt roadside somewhere.  Last year when the south pass washed out, we turned around, for the first time in 25 years of frequenting the valley.  We know when enough is enough.

Is it still possible for something bad to happen?  Sure, something bad could happen on the freeway, too.  Doesn't mean I am going to stay home my whole life.  I'm the guy that took my kids to Burning Man in '09 when they were 6 and 4 years old.

Sparky of SoCal

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Posts: 64
 #63 

Thanks for your concerns for my safety in my ‘attempt’ to follow Bob’s tracks. After careful consideration, deliberation, reflection, soul searching, thought, pretty sure I got this one. Zero concern for equipment or skills qualifications and will have two other buddies to sit around dinner with and tell lies about the big ditch.

Salt Peter

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 #64 
That video is nuts.

The park service did not remove the bat from the pole on Bat Rock Road. It came down and has not been able to be placed back up. Anyone who wants to bring in a cherry picker or some other way to get it up there is more than welcome. From what I know is that Lee has the bat.
James Sel

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Posts: 315
 #65 
Erik is right!  Lots of babbling going on here. Why all the speculation?

I went in alone on the South Pass It was well over 105°F that day I had never had A/C in my rig (and no chains). Paul you know the risks and it is likely you will be OK. I think you are wrong about Miller's towing you out if needed ( I think you should call and see if they will first).  The SP is going to beat the hell out of you and your rig.

  pugsly  It's simple you're right about entry obstacles.


There is an unofficial Facebook page by an DVNP managed by an employee of the park. The author is ( I assume) the friend Bob is speaking of. The management of the park has no control over  the page, they have their own sh*t. I called the author of the page from Bat Pole the next morning as I was leaving the spring to give him an assessment from my point of view. I was in contact with him before I went in and he said he would rescue me if needed. I gave him a return time and I called him to report my safe return from just north of Lee Flat on my return trip. 

Bob did not go alone!!!! ( He was with other Experts " hi Mark") He likely would have turned around if his heart (which has Detroit lockers and a winch) didn't feel the challenge pulling on his chest. As he looked at the impassable drop off in front of him.

NO!  To whom it may concern..........You and your rig cannot keep up with Silver don't think you on the same level. He and the rig are in this Isham Cyn run it does not show his maximum capabilities.  Springer and off roaders are not one in the same. See his rig; it is the last in the vid " 



  https://www.facebook.com/DeathValleyRoadConditions



Salt Peter

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 #66 
LOL no more talkie talkie in a first post.
paul belanger

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Posts: 248
 #67 
Welcome to "Saline Valley Talk"....where we are being asked for "No more talkie talkie."

Overall, this discussion has been a pretty good one about personal responsibility.
Salt Peter

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 #68 
Welcome to SVT
Pace n Erik

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 #69 
Sometimes reading this makes my brain hurt ! Sit down shut up hang on. Then send pics. No more talkie talkie.
Tule

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 #70 
"....intelligent flaming..." 
paul belanger

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 #71 
"Mild, intelligent flaming is allowable."
Tule

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 #72 
GEEEZ!! I was just kidding about blowing the notch.  I'm guessing 15-20 of us could make quick work of it and make it passable for well equipped rigs.  Of course Inyo Co. doesn't want us doing road work.  As for NPS, I recall that they were touting the concept of "user maintained roads".  None-the-less, its not their concern, the road belongs to the County.  To be clear, I do appreciate that they are there for those in need.  As for those who will attempt passage in an urban commuter, well, let the Darwin Theory prevail.  And finally--too much "flaming" going on here. If you want to fight, take it outside. 
pugsly

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 #73 
To me the whole issue with the warnings, road closed signs etc is this - it's the story of the boy who cried wolf.  We've become so conditioned to driving around those signs that now when the roads actually are pretty closed we're just inclined to ignore them.

Perhaps the Park Service and others should focus on having realistic warnings regarding the amount of clearance required, 4WD, etc. 

I'm also a big fan of having a 'filter' on back country jeep trails.  There should be one big hairy obstacle within a couple of yards of starting down the road.  If you can negotiate it okay, then you'll be okay the rest of the way.  

An issue with the current Saline road is that by the time first timers hit the rough stuff they are already so invested in the trip that they just forge ahead, figuring 'how bad can it be', 'made it this far', etc.
paul belanger

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Posts: 248
 #74 
Precisely, Bob.  I am talking about personal responsibility.  I could go into a diatribe about how American society is devolving into a putrid nanny state, but I'll suffice to say that I haven't entered the Saline Valley in over 10 years WITHOUT driving past a "Road Closed" sign.  (I usually use the south pass.) I always assumed the signs were there to protect Inyo County and the Feds from lawsuits when a-holes get stuck. I totally agree with the signs usage for that purpose.  To say no one can, or should, go down there 'cause a few fools get stuck is a severe limitation on personal freedom.
trigger

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 #75 
Silverbob, thats too bad that some in the park service think you are encouraging folks to go out there in these current conditions. I didn't read it like that. I think you described everything accurately. Just because its hot and the roads are screwed up doesn't mean the well equipped and VERY WELL PREPARED can't make it and have a great trip. I think the park service is probably hypersensitive to this stuff because they are sick and tired of rescuing idiots who are not prepared at all. I don't blame them. During my last trip to the springs a young couple was out there in a Honda civic and another guy in a newer Volkswagen bug with chrome wheels and low profile tires! Really???!!!! They were all really nice people but come on! Rangers must wanna just slap people like that across the head.
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