Registered: 1340329003 Posts: 251
MK -- you said ==
"It seems like most everyone would agree to wear a bathing suit in exchange for leaving everything the way it is." Are you kidding me? I would be totally upset if some government type told me I have to wear a bathing suit in the springs. There are also obvious issues with persons washing clothes in the water I soak in. Our tradition has always been that one cleans oneself in the showers and then soaks naked. This traditions helps keep the pools clean. What about the cultural heritage of OURS? Why does not the Saline Valley Tribe's (SPA) cultural heritage count for anything?? The Timbusha-Shoshone indigenous persons are making claims to the land based on activities that allegedly took place 100 or more years ago, but have long since been discontinued. How can the NPS just disregard our claims of cultural heritage, the evidence of which are easily viewed in the desert today? Are their claims more valid than ours?
Registered: 1376878957 Posts: 4
The NPS has all of its Ducks in a row. While these issues were of no real concern to BLM now they are under the NPS.
I hope those of you who have a better understanding of the NPS's wishes have an idea of where this might lead! To those of you who are passionate about this place, like so many of us are, I hope you are able to stay calm and collective when you are representing the future of the springs. It would be nice not having to laid down all of our chips before knowing what their most important items are. The remoteness of the springs is a good thing, however the easiness of individuals to post their vacation on some social media site in my opinion has bit us in the butt! Places like the spring were only talked about with personal close friends. Now all you need to do is type in the name and hell people have directions in getting you there! Those of you good natured individuals who are going to attend the meetings please lat us know how you would like us to respond to the NPS.
Registered: 1295390965 Posts: 786
In case anybody's wandering, this URL will lead you to the Potential Issues identified by NPS (Mike Cipra):
http://parkplanning.nps.gov/document.cfm?documentID=47178 Read Potential_Issue_2.pdf document. Nothing has happened but there is a "potential".
Hi Desert Warrior
Registered: 1302375291 Posts: 208
I hear tell that Mike Cipra is moving on. He wanted plan 5 very badly. With him moving on, I think plan 5 is listed but it won't be considered and that's why he is leaving. That's only what I think. Who knows what the new director has in mind. She shut down the race through Death Valley citing safety reasons. The Highway Patrol disagrees and she can't report where there has been a safety problem. So who knows where she is coming from.
Registered: 1383528842 Posts: 1
I was surprised that the nudity issue didn't seem to be a big concern. And I wondered if it was a "bargaining chip" of any kind... It seems like most everyone would agree to wear a bathing suit in exchange for leaving everything the way it is. But maybe it's not a big deal to the NPS.
It also occurred to me that the way the alternatives are laid out 1 to 5, one being nothing and five bulldozing, perhaps they are laying the way to choose number three and say they chose the middle ground. I just came out of the springs yesterday, and would like to note that the "plan" is posted on the bulletin board at the lower springs, which most people would not even notice. It should be posted in the outhouses. Most people at the springs knew nothing about it... Perhaps that is as planned. Lee seems to be sure the plan will involve a restricted camping area, as per #3 I think. But I don't know what he may know.
Mike Cipra's concerns must be challenged in courts. Read them yourselves- diary of a narcissistic enviro man.
SPA' s inactivity led to where we are allowing NPS to continue.
Registered: 1265244387 Posts: 59
I have revised my schedule and will now attend the Furnace Creek Meeting this coming Tues. Also, I will support the "No Action Alternative" and attempt to ascertain their alternative selection criteria.
If anyone has a question or specific concern, let me know, I will try to bring it up at the meeting. Geo.
Registered: 1264818129 Posts: 349
If anyone is wishing to attend the Ridgecrest meeting, and needs a place to stay, I have several acres available for camping out. If you would like to plunk your tent or camper with us, send me a private message.
Registered: 1320340650 Posts: 295
Or they could continue as is, hands off, cheap for them, and say they are doing it after review and public discussion. I'm not counting on this, but neither am I writing off the springs as we know them.
Registered: 1378872047 Posts: 2
There (the park service) not going to go through this exercise and not do anything. So you can rule out the "No Action Plan"
While you are considering your comments, keep in mind that the NPS used the term 'preliminary' alternatives. That to me means that they are not so 'set in stone' that you can't suggest that ANY of the alternatives be modified to include and additional element, or exclude a particular element. IOW, I don't think at this point it's just a matter of five choices, unless you're willing to give up something that strategically important so readily.
Registered: 1265052278 Posts: 113
That is a very good question "
How will the final alternative be chosen". I hope someone will ask this question at one of the meeting sites. I would like to pin down the NPS as who has the final word on management of the Springs and how they come to that solution. It doesn't look promising for me to make any of the public meeting, but I hope some of you can and report back some of this information. For everyone, please comment on the Management Plan before March 28th. That gives us ample time, but time can be fleeting. OJ
Registered: 1264959130 Posts: 21
Buried in the files is " Comment Period: 01/23/2014 - 03/28/2014", DVNP see the upcoming show and tell as the putting it before the public, but would accept comments at that time, provided it is in the appropriate form (written or email or using their "comment form" on their site). Another question might be " How will the final alternative be chosen".
Registered: 1322498873 Posts: 31
I just learned that the NPS has released its proposed alternatives. (Been out of town for the last 6 days.) It looks like from the comments above this was done on or around Thursday, January 23rd. Some of the alternatives are very disturbing for those of us you love Saline Valley. We all need to spend some time reviewing and studying these "alternatives." The NPS is asking for public input at three upcoming public meetings to occur during the first week of February. The notice for these public meetings is less than two weeks. I don't think that is an adequate amount of time to prepare for public comment. I think a minimum of 30 days would have been a more adequate notice. (As measured from the date of the public release of the Alternatives Documents and the first public comment meeting.) This would allow everyone to adequately review the documents, prepare intelligent commentary and set aside time to participate in the public meetings (especially as the meeting locations are far from where most of us live.)! Other questions to consider: 1) Who is it that will "choose" the final alternative; 2) Why are the Timbisha Shoshone being given such a large roll in the future of Saline Valley; 3) Why do four of the five alternatives proposed to remove the palms from "Upper Spring" (sic) while palms will be allowed to stay at the Lower Springs?
Registered: 1343719700 Posts: 55
I am curious which option all 10,000+ members of the Tribe are going to pick?
I bet NPS is not going to leave the place alone. This is a typical example of the out of control government against the people. This is a typical example of the casino money used to buy votes. By the way, I am not an anti - government and anti-tribe fanatic.