Saline Preservation Association

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Poll Results
 Should the NPS extend the public comment period
 Yes, extend the comment period 62 98%
 No, let the comment period expire on 3/28 1 1%
Total votes: 63. This poll has been closed.

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Hi Desert Warrior

Posts: 205
I hear tell that Mike Cipra is moving on.  He wanted plan 5 very badly.  With him moving on, I think plan 5 is listed but it won't be considered and that's why he is leaving.  That's only what I think.  Who knows what the new director has in mind.  She shut down the race through Death Valley citing safety reasons.  The Highway Patrol disagrees and she can't report where there has been a safety problem.  So who knows where she is coming from. 

Posts: 1
I was surprised that the nudity issue didn't seem to be a big concern. And I wondered if it was a "bargaining chip" of any kind... It seems like most everyone would agree to wear a bathing suit in exchange for leaving everything the way it is. But maybe it's not a big deal to the NPS.

It also occurred to me that the way the alternatives are laid out 1 to 5, one being nothing and five bulldozing, perhaps they are laying the way to choose number three and say they chose the middle ground.

I just came out of the springs yesterday, and would like to note that the "plan" is posted on the bulletin board at the lower springs, which most people would not even notice. It should be posted in the outhouses. Most people at the springs knew nothing about it... Perhaps that is as planned. 

Lee seems to be sure the plan will involve a restricted camping area, as per #3 I think. But I don't know what he may know.
Just Un
Mike Cipra's concerns must be challenged in courts. Read them yourselves- diary of a narcissistic enviro man.
SPA' s inactivity led to where we are allowing NPS to continue.

Posts: 57
I have revised my schedule and will now attend the Furnace Creek Meeting this coming Tues. Also, I will support the "No Action Alternative" and attempt to ascertain their alternative selection criteria.

If anyone has a question or specific concern, let me know, I will try to bring it up at the meeting.

Major Tom

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Posts: 349
If anyone is wishing to attend the Ridgecrest meeting, and needs a place to stay, I have several acres available for camping out. If you would like to plunk your tent or camper with us, send me a private message. 

Posts: 295
Or they could continue as is, hands off, cheap for them, and say they are doing it after review and public discussion. I'm not counting on this, but neither am I writing off the springs as we know them.

Posts: 2
There (the park service) not going to go through this exercise and not do anything. So you can rule out the "No Action Plan"
While you are considering your comments, keep in mind that the NPS used the term 'preliminary' alternatives. That to me means that they are not so 'set in stone' that you can't suggest that ANY of the alternatives be modified to include and additional element, or exclude a particular element. IOW, I don't think at this point it's just a matter of five choices, unless you're willing to give up something that strategically important so readily.


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Posts: 113
That is a very good question " How will the final alternative be chosen". I hope someone will ask this question at one of the meeting sites. I would like to pin down the NPS as who has the final word on management of the Springs and how they come to that solution. It doesn't look promising for me to make any of the public meeting, but I hope some of you can and report back some of this information. For everyone, please comment on the Management Plan before March 28th. That gives us ample time, but time can be fleeting.



Posts: 21
Hi Route,
     Buried in the files is "Comment Period: 01/23/2014 - 03/28/2014", DVNP see the upcoming show and tell as the putting it before the public, but would accept comments at that time, provided it is in the appropriate form (written or email or using their "comment form" on their site).
     Another question might be "How will the final alternative be chosen".

Route 66

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Posts: 31
I just learned that the NPS has released its proposed alternatives. (Been out of town for the last 6 days.)  It looks like from the comments above this was done on or around Thursday, January 23rd.  Some of the alternatives are very disturbing for those of us you love Saline Valley.  We all need to spend some time reviewing and studying these "alternatives."  The NPS is asking for public input at three upcoming public meetings to occur during the first week of February.  The notice for these public meetings is less than two weeks.  I don't think that is an adequate amount of time to prepare for public comment.  I think a minimum of 30 days would have been a more adequate notice.  (As measured from the date of the public release of the Alternatives Documents and the first public comment meeting.)  This would allow everyone to adequately review the documents, prepare intelligent commentary and set aside time to participate in the public meetings (especially as the meeting locations are far from where most of us live.)!   Other questions to consider: 1) Who is it that will "choose" the final alternative; 2) Why are the Timbisha Shoshone being given such a large roll in the future of Saline Valley; 3) Why do four of the five alternatives proposed to remove the palms from "Upper Spring" (sic) while palms will be allowed to stay at the Lower Springs?

Posts: 48
I am curious which option all 10,000+ members of the Tribe are going to pick?
I bet NPS is not going to leave the place alone.
This is a typical example of the out of control government against the people.
This is a typical example of the casino money used to buy votes.
By the way, I am not an anti - government and anti-tribe fanatic.

Posts: 21
Meeting Notices

Date              Start Time     End Time     Location
02/04/2014     4:00 PM         6:30 PM     Furnace Creek Visitor Center
                                                        Highway 190
                                                        Death Valley, California
02/05/2014     4:00 PM         6:30 PM     Statham Hall
                                                        138 N. Jackson St.
                                                        Lone Pine, California
02/06/2014     4:00 PM         6:30 PM     Historical Society of the Upper Mojave Desert
                                                        230 W. Ridgecrest. Blvd.
                                                        Ridgecrest, California

Project Home:

The Alternatives section is:

DEVA_alts_newsletter_final.pdf - {Which is the COLORED 8 page with photos} This is TOO LARGE to put on this website (either 1.5 Mb or 8.7 Mb depending on the version)

DEVA_Saline_Valley_Warm_Springs_EIS_Preliminary_Alternatives_Jan_2014.pdf - {Which is the SUMMARY 8 page}
This was not observed as part of the package issued by mail, but is equally important.

pdf DEVA_Saline_Valley_Warm_Springs_EIS_Preliminary_Alternatives_Jan_2014.pdf  

DEVA_Saline_Valley_Warm_Springs_EIS_Preliminary_Alternatives_Comparison_Table_Jan_2014.pdf - {Which is the COMPARISON 4 page of Columns and rows}

pdf DEVA_Saline_Valley_Warm_Springs_EIS_Preliminary_Alterna...able_Jan_2014.pdf  

Of importance are :

Camp fires and fire rings, ash Disposal.
The possibility of removing the dish washing area.
The "Chicken Strip", as it stands, is illegal and a special regulation will have to be made to keep it open.
DVNP does not anticipate immediate input during the meetings this coming 4th, 5th and 6th Feb.
Input (Public  comments) will  be  accepted  through March 28, 2014

Comments are preferred on-line at -:

Note that your address, telephone number, electronic mail address, and your comments, may be made publicly available at any time.

Comments made by individuals or organizations (like SPA) on behalf of other individuals or organizations (Like SPA) will NOT be accepted, so "Organization:" is NOT one of the boxes to be filled on the comment form (above).


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Posts: 31
Two of the guiding principles the National Park Service adheres to:


  • Productive Partnerships: Collaborating with federal, state, tribal, and local governments, private organizations (that's us), and businesses to work toward common goals.
  • Citizen Involvement: Providing opportunities for citizens to participate in the decisions and actions of the National Park Service.

I really hope they believe in these guiding principles. The second really speaks to us. I can only imagine how many comments are being sent to the NPS during this comment period of which I would think 99% would be in favor of keeping things the way they are as we are by far the largest group of people who use and protect this area.

Major Tom

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Posts: 349
Some good questions being posed here, and I will endeavor to pursue them at the Ridgecrest meeting, when I return to the mainland. Meanwhile, here is a link to the locations of the upcoming meetings in February:
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