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harpster

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Posts: 2
 #1 
I, too, have received driver training from Tom. This guy is golden. He is all about safety, treading lightly, and protecting our investment. I've gone to Hell and back, returning unscathed, thanks to his wisdom. (Have not participated in his trips because would rather go out with 2 or 3 vehicles, or by myself.) Know this, though: he is a worthy cat, who gives his all to any who would like to explore 'Back of Beyond' in a responsible manner. Am sorry to hear of this bad experience, but am sure that Tom will work with Saliners in the future to ensure a better outcome. Sam, your worries are valid. I urge you to open a dialogue w/Tom. All will benefit.
Sam D.

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Posts: 724
 #2 
Tom's responsibility should be to conduct post checkout inspections before his group departs. Obviously he failed despite all the fantastic qualities Russ mentioned.

Ignorance or "I told them so" do really not help.
peneumbra

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Posts: 29
 #3 
Perhaps, "James Sel," you ought to learn to read English before you grace us with your wisdom.
Russ Chung

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Posts: 2
 #4 
I've known Tom Severin since 2005 when I took his 4x4 training course. Since then I have been on several club runs with him to Baja, Tierra del Sol Desert Safari, Death Valley and the Rubicon but I have never been on any of his commercial runs which required a SUP. He has always impressed me as a professional whose concern for safety and Tread Lightly are a role model for others. He is a Tread Lightly Trainer. I cannot accept Sam D's characterization of Tom and Badlands Off-Road. Unless it can be shown that he was aware of the bad behavior and chose not to take appropriate action, I do not believe he should be blamed just because he charged a fee for his service.
And to answer Sam D's original question, I think it's great to provide a service to enable people to share the wonders of Death Valley National Park.
peneumbra

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Posts: 29
 #5 
FIREARMS

Due to law changes, firearms are no longer prohibited in National Parks.

Shooting said firearms in a National Park remains unlawful.
Sam D.

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Posts: 724
 #6 
Nothing in Tom Severin's manifesto tells people how to use the springs - like foot washing, showering, leashed dogs, collecting campfire ashes etc. He brings people who do not maintain the springs to the visitors maintained springs. How about his group adapts a pool and a restroom for the duration of the stay or asks the host for a project or two?
By the way, is it true that he's licensed for 12 people only ? During his visit he brought 2 groups well larger than 12 ? Should we call it an attempt to circumvent?
It's not enough to tell people how to behave at the springs. Tom has the responsibility to inspect the campsite and the springs before his group departs and address any issues found. Hiding behind "I told them so" does not really work.
lighthawk

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Posts: 5
 #7 
Thanks for telling us and so many others about how your group uses Saline Valley.  
I hope you noted comments about the condition your group left the area, the bathrooms, and the springs.  

I'm not clear.  Are you charging for your services to bring these large groups into the Valley?

lighthawk

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Posts: 5
 #8 
Did this group have a valid use permit?  It's my understand that commercial use requires a permit from DVNP.
https://www.nps.gov/deva/learn/management/commercial-use-authorizations.htm
paul belanger

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Posts: 248
 #9 
EVERYBODY should clean debris and such.  Making a little money for guiding tours to Saline has never been, and is not now, an issue.  If it were to be done in high volume, that would be an entirely different matter.

Any time a known group leaves a mess, document and confront.  I believe a group like this should respond in a positive manner.  And anyway, it was 6 years ago.  Has it occurred again since?
Sam D.

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Posts: 724
 #10 
There were at least 18 in one spot (group 1) and I believe there was another group 2 in a nearby location with around 8 vehicles.
genocache

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Posts: 17
 #11 
I looked on the NPS website and couldn't find the info so I emailed them and found that 12 is the max for vehicles and 20 for motorcycles. The holder of the CUA is responsible for the group. https://www.nps.gov/deva/getinvolved/upload/Guided-Motor-Vehicle-Tour-web.pdf
ski3pin

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Posts: 5
 #12 
Where guided groups are allowed to overnight and what is expected of them would be covered and documented in the required special use permit to operate inside the National Park. DVNP headquarters can provide a copy of the permit as it is public information.
encore889

Registered:
Posts: 29
 #13 
http://www.4x4training.com/contacts.html

Heres their contact info.

Their site says they have some kind of license to teach offroading. Not sure if its goverment or otherwise...? We should all be calling the inyo country ranger station to complain. Its our duty to protect our national park.

__________________
Just say no to shirtcocking, or donald ducking! [biggrin]
tronaborn

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Posts: 86
 #14 
Documenting the damage with pictures, notes, dates, etc. would go a long way to support any information given to the Superintendent.
Sam D.

Registered:
Posts: 724
 #15 
The reason I asked ( and tbone, I only appreciate good *asm) is that on Sunday a huge group of off-roaders guided by
Badlands Off-Road Adventures Inc. http://www.4x4training.com/ camped at the springs' baseball field. These folks seemed to be nicer than the usual offroad jeep club people but yet they consumed the donated resources, dirtied immaculate restrooms, fowled up the pools and left some crap behind for others to pick up.
These groups almost never participate in maintenance and cleanup, yet at a cost of $425 per vehicle... These guys are just leeches. 
Can we write to the superintendent to revoke their license if any?


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